[Graeme]

No Hydrogen Economy Needed: Existing Tech Could Replace Fossil Fuels

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow researchers at City College of New York are proposing very much the same thing in a policy discussion published in the journal Science. In the September 1 issue, they say the combined use of alternative energies for which we already have reliable technology "could replace all fossil fuel power plants." These sources include concentrated solar thermal energy (in which heat from the sun creates steam to run generators), nuclear energy, geothermal and hydroelectric plants, wind energy, photovoltaic cells, and biomass.

They also claim that plug-in hybrid vehicles could replace 80 percent of the gasoline used in the United States. And they say the use of hydrogen for fuel is a bad idea in most cases--that using electricity directly in vehicles (stored in batteries) rather than to generate hydrogen is three times cheaper.

The catch? A huge price tag. Reducing total fossil-fuel use by 70 percent would cost $200 billion per year for 30 years, outlays the City College researchers hope could be collected through a tax on carbon-dioxide emissions of $50 per ton.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '
')
They also claim that plug-in hybrid vehicles could replace 80 percent of the gasoline used in the United States.

[chris-h]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '
')
They also claim that plug-in hybrid vehicles could replace 80 percent of the gasoline used in the United States.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('chris-h', ' ')
Oh i am sure that we can import those plug-in hybrid vehicles from fantasy land .

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('chris-h', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '
')
They also claim that plug-in hybrid vehicles could replace 80 percent of the gasoline used in the United States.

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '[')b]No Hydrogen Economy Needed: Existing Tech Could Replace Fossil Fuels

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow researchers at City College of New York are proposing very much the same thing in a policy discussion published in the journal Science. In the September 1 issue, they say the combined use of alternative energies for which we already have reliable technology "could replace all fossil fuel power plants." These sources include concentrated solar thermal energy (in which heat from the sun creates steam to run generators), nuclear energy, geothermal and hydroelectric plants, wind energy, photovoltaic cells, and biomass.

They also claim that plug-in hybrid vehicles could replace 80 percent of the gasoline used in the United States. And they say the use of hydrogen for fuel is a bad idea in most cases--that using electricity directly in vehicles (stored in batteries) rather than to generate hydrogen is three times cheaper.

The catch? A huge price tag. Reducing total fossil-fuel use by 70 percent would cost $200 billion per year for 30 years, outlays the City College researchers hope could be collected through a tax on carbon-dioxide emissions of $50 per ton.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '
')
Peakoil is Peakenergy.

[Graeme]

Looks like a perfectly feasible solution to me. The problem is implementing it! It needs to be supported (e.g. with tax credits) by government, and everyone needs to know that this is the way to go (again government policy).

Your fantasy land happens to be Japan:

Mitsubishi to sell electric car in the U.S.
And USA. RGR mentioned the Tesla.
I'm sure there will be others from Korea, China and Germany.

The EV's can be recharged with portable renewable energy (solar, wind) at home. Do engineers have to provide all the solutions?

Would you prefer that we just roll over, submit to the inevitable - and do nothing? Why always look for reasons it can't be done. When it comes to the crunch (high oil prices), I think the majority will be looking for leadership and possible solutions like this one.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', ' ')Do engineers have to provide all the solutions?

[Windmills]

It's not that the plan is entirely unreasonable...on paper. Overall, it sounds alright to me...theoretically.

The problem is the will, the timing, the money, the resources, and the state of the economy when these decisions are finally made, or some plan is finally agreed upon. I think there are plenty of doomers out there who'd appreciate one plan or the other. It's not the end solution that alwasy finds disagreement, but rather the means to that end.

In this case, nuclear power would have to be the primary baseload source. How many nuclear power plants are being built in the US right now? How many are on order? How soon will we need them in order to prevent a serious depression? And how eager is the public going to be about replacing fossil plants and embracing nuclear plants? Will they change their opinions only when it is too late? I don't recall the numbers, but just for the sake of arguement, if we get 20% of electricity from nuclear plants, we'll have to build another 300 to 400 plants just to replace the coal, oil, and gas-fired plants. This is to say nothing of the number of new plants we'll need to support electrified personal transportation.

The problem with many a good plan is that it's likely to remain on the table until it's too late. Once the magic hand of the free market starts to send its signals, the game may already be over. The economy could be weakening at such a rate that we do not have the money and resources to divert to such a massive overhaul of our infrastructure. At that point, the powerdown scenario may be forced upon us. If we need 20 years to make the conversion, can we do it during 20 years of economic decline of unprecedented rate and magnitude?

Part of the doomer crowd perspective derives from the fact that no one is doing anything of significance at this time. There are not enough people who are aware. Of those that are aware, not everyone agrees it's an immediate problem. Of those that do, not all agree on what the best plan of action is. So, at this point, there is only a tiny crowd of people that are ready and willing to take action. How many times has peak oil been mentioned in this election cycle? I'll be shocked if it's mentioned in the presidential debates. We more likely to hear about more flag burning and gay marriage.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', 'I') If we need 20 years to make the conversion, can we do it during 20 years of economic decline of unprecedented rate and magnitude?

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '
')
Peakoil is Peakenergy.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '
')
Peakoil is Peakenergy.

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergySpin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', 'I') If we need 20 years to make the conversion, can we do it during 20 years of economic decline of unprecedented rate and magnitude?

[ReserveGrowthRulz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', '
')
Part of the doomer crowd perspective derives from the fact that no one is doing anything of significance at this time.

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '
')
Peakoil is Peakenergy.

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '
')
Peakoil is Peakenergy.

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '
')
Peakoil is Peakenergy.

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReserveGrowthRulz', 'I') like the idea of a massive and multi decade long boom in energy infrastructure in EVERYTHING. LNG trains, nukes, coal mines, domestic car companies swapping over to pluggable hybrids, GTL across the globe, wind farms, PV manufacturing in Iowa, ethanol coming out of corn fields while Honda perfects the cellulose end of it. Just gives me CHILLS thinking of all the good things we can employ tons of americans doing instead of sitting around, chaining themselves to tree's and whining about how it isn't fair that walmart doesn't solve the worlds poverty problem all by itself because they happen to have a successful business.

[The_Toecutter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ure no problem . If somebody is giving the new plug-in hybrid vehicles free of charge everybody is going to get one .