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Oil prices to stay below $70 for 3 or 4 years!

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Oil prices to stay below $70 for 3 or 4 years!

Unread postby EnemyCombatant » Mon 09 Oct 2006, 12:27:02

Here's a clue:

The Coming Economic Collapse
How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel
Stephen Leeb, PhD
Now why didn't I take the blue pill.
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Re: Oil prices to stay below $70 for 3 or 4 years!

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 09 Oct 2006, 12:39:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', 'H')ere's a clue:

The Coming Economic Collapse
How You Can Thrive When Oil Costs $200 a Barrel
Stephen Leeb, PhD


This reminds me of the book, "Dow 36,000" written a few years back. There is no way on God's green earth that oil is going to 200. per barrel. Demand destruction kicks in appreciably at 70.00. People will ride donkeys to work well before oil hits even 100.00 per barrel.

The only way that this could possibly happen is if China remains an economic powerhouse and continues to grow at 8% per year. If this is the case, I'm in absolute agreement. Hell, why stop at 200.00, it could go higher.
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Re: Oil prices to stay below $70 for 3 or 4 years!

Unread postby AgentR » Mon 09 Oct 2006, 14:01:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'A')s a preliminary matter, what "appreciable" demand destruction did we see when oil was over 70 this summer?


I didn't think much of it at the time, as it seemed modest and reasonable... During that run where gas was at $3 and news stories were filled with whiners; a sizeable number of people, in the normal course of replacing an older car, purchased a more efficient car instead of an SUV or Truck. That is *real* demand destruction. It stays destroyed, even if gas drops to $1.50 a gallon.

I wish I had kept the link... (it was about the noted difference in demand for SUV & light trucks, vs the increase in demand for small cars)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s a secondary matter, demand destruction will not function, as a rule, to prevent price increases.


In the long run, that is true, but in our near term environment, demand destruction can reduce the amount of total consumption below what suppliers were anticipating, and oil is not just bits on a hard drive, it has to go somewhere, and it costs money to just sit in one place.

So small spreads between shipped and stored supply vs amount that consumers want to consume and make for some very unstable pricing. I'd expect a few years of this "nibbling" kind of activity. Small destruction, quick price spikes and declines.
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Re: Oil prices to stay below $70 for 3 or 4 years!

Unread postby Starvid » Mon 09 Oct 2006, 14:44:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'G')ideon's Prediction:


The key moment will be when it becomes inarguable that SA is in terminal decline. When the world notices that, and no SA excuses will cover the decline, then oil will breach 100 bucks and, even accounting for inflation, it will never come down.

I think w/in 36 months.

In fact, I'm betting on it.

I don't think Saudi will peak soon. Why? Because people who know things (where do I live? *hint*) told me that people who really should know say Saudi can go to 10-11 mbpd and stay there for a few decades. He also said that Saudi is 160 bbl (I think I recall) and that Kuwait is about 50 bbl, that all the "quota war" revisions were fakes.

Is he right? I don't know, but it's the best source I have. Matt Simmons is pretty hysteric at times.

I also think that full spectrum doomerism is dangerous. Just because one thinks we will see a peak pretty soon and there is a lot less oil in the ground than conventional wisdom says, one shouldn't let the petropessimism taint other issues which are not really related, like the real estate "collapse". It could collapse, but it can be a soft landning too. Et cetera for other problems.
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Re: Oil prices to stay below $70 for 3 or 4 years!

Unread postby threadbear » Mon 09 Oct 2006, 16:30:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'S')omeone wrote:


But I see 75% of Americans driving solo to work with gas at 5 bucks a gallon. That's 60 dollars to fill up your compact sedan. And you get 350 miles out of that. So if work is 30 miles away, that's your one week cost. Most Americans will eat the extra 30 bucks each week rather than carpool.


I look at it this way. With oil at 75 a barrel and gasoline at 3 bucks a gallon, I saw no change in most people's behavior. A guy accross the street is warming up his car for 5 minutes in the morning, and it's 45 degrees! People still run around doing useless things.

So if oil goes to 150 and gas is 6 bucks a gallon, will people still drive? Of course! Less? Of course!

The question is "how much?"


Demand destruction is likely responsible, at least in part, for prices coming down recently. And btw, please don't quote govt stats to prove me wrong, because they're not reliable.

If it hits 5.00 per gallon, businesses will shut down, unemployment will increase to pretty high levels and the unemployed don't burn a lot of rubber. People will be carpooling like crazy. Californians and others in the SW will be on mopeds and bicycles, etc...etc... The result-- prices automatically dropping back down. The wild card is China. If their consumption doesn't slow prices could still go up.
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Re: Oil prices to stay below $70 for 3 or 4 years!

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Mon 09 Oct 2006, 16:45:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreebeardsUncle', 'D')emand destruction in the industrialized world has been minimal so far.


There, fixed that up for you.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreebeardsUncle', 'A')nd in the early 80's oil was in today's terms up over $80 a barrel or so and the only significant change was a lot of people were driving smaller cars so even at $100/barrel the economy should not collapse. Folks could get cars a bit smaller on average than in the 80s and/or just go deeper into debt in the states.


That is demand destruction.
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Re: Oil prices to stay below $70 for 3 or 4 years!

Unread postby TreebeardsUncle » Mon 09 Oct 2006, 17:14:26

Yes, DT, I agree that is indeed demand destruction. However, I still think it is minimal demand destruction. When millions of Americans aren't commuting 10s of miles alone in their cars on a daily basis to and from work but instead are living closer to work or using trains or motor-cycles in large proportions instead, then I will call that substantial demand destruction.
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