[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'G')reat post. Well written and a pleasure to read and consider.

[perdition79]

Your "slavery economy" theory is the exact reason I'm leaving the U.S. sometime in early 2008, with as much gold as I can buy. I see the Real ID Act as one of the first steps in the enslavement process, and I want no part of it.

[KhanCEO]

It is posts like this that keep me sane. Thank you for making this post, every well put. /cheer

[zberry]

Great post.
I totally agree about the connection between Peak Oil and 9/11. Irrevocably intertwined. The more we learn about 9/11, the more we learn about how things really work and how the mainstream media is used to deceive us.
Who Killed John O'Neil

[americandream]

We are products of our system..not the other way around. No matter what you might be against intellectually, its your actions that make for the systemic impulses that regulate life around you.

For example, I may well be the most freedom loving, left wing inspired cornucopian consumer. However, all the fine sentiment I the hold does no detract from the simple fact that my level of consumption (the affinity for Volvos, fine Arabica from Guatamala and hot air) is what underwrites the systemic fundamentals around me.

Given that contradiction, I suspect we shall not see any populist upswellings (market high jinks) of the type contemplated any time soon but instead a slow grind into deeper levels of denialist econo/enviro degradation. When all were crying out the imminent demise of this and that recently, I remained the sceptic. Thus far, Iran still continues to cry wolf, Lebanon has been flattened, oil is dropping, the market is very nicely readjusting (from one set of pockets into another), Asia and Russia continue to enthusiastically embrace the American model...and Europe in tried and tested fashion, dutifully plays its role in the good guy, bad guy routine, while the Arabs as usual prevaricate between being the swords of allah and the best latino dudes on the night club floor.

Oh, in time the system will go belly up...when coppers run out, and oil and all the rest....and our refuel stop to the moon is outta gas......but in the meantime, I'm not buying into the nonsense that the US and its lifestyle is going anywhere other than into every living room in the world as fast as the suckers can make it happen.

[max_power29]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', 'Y')our "slavery economy" theory is the exact reason I'm leaving the U.S. sometime in early 2008, with as much gold as I can buy. I see the Real ID Act as one of the first steps in the enslavement process, and I want no part of it.

[jupiters_release]

I have a friend who's a bond lawyer in the financial district, he's never been to this site but he's well aware of peak oil and the tangible economic collapse. He sounded at peace though, told me we can enjoy the time before SHTF. Wonder what percent of investment professionals know whats coming, wouldn't be surprised myself if were the majority.

[NEOPO]

if this is so then I bet they are having a hard time resisting to buy right about now as $60-$62 may be the floor unless some GIANT new find in the gulf of mexico presents itself or americans stop using their cars

[chakra]

While at work today, I was pondering about what heating source has the longest shelf life while having the best storage. If inflation is eroding our earnings, being able to buy things with our money today for items we know we will use in the future might be a good thing to do.

Is the shelf life of pellets for a pellet stove greater then the time wood is good before it dries out too much? Can either of these fuel sources be stored for many seasons?

On the liquid side, most gas is delivered directly to us, or we are limited by our oil tank size. Gas goes bad after a year or two in storage, can the same be said about propane and oil? If they do have better shelf lives, is there an easy way to store them?

Thanks for any responses in advance. I've been considering getting backup heat since I live in Canada, so any extra information will help me make a better decision.

[EnergyUnlimited]

I consider heating oil (diesel) or gasoline to be indefinitely stable.

[Ludi]

Wood stored in the form of growing trees lasts for years. Wood cut and stacked and kept dry will also last for years.

I don't think pellet stoves are such a hot idea because most (I think) require electricity to operate.

[TorrKing]

Even frozen, raw birch burns good. I think you may be overanalyzing things here.

As ludi says, store your wood dry and out of the sun. Otherwise it will degrade in time. Over here we never cut more wood than for one season anyway, so it isn't really a problem.

Tip 1: The wood seasons faster if you doesn't limb it right away after it is cut. The leaves will continue to spend the moisture stored in the trunk. It will still not be completely dry after the leaves have died, but much closer than it would if you limbed it and stored it right away.

Tip 2: To test if the wood is dry enough to burn, smear liquid soap on one end of the piece. Blow in the end without soap on it. If the blowing creates bubbles on the soapy surface end; it is dry. If not, store it.

[chakra]

I live in an urban setting, so any purchase of wood would have to be from a supplier. If the SHTF I don't know if I could rely on a company to deliver more wood, so storing a few years in advance might be a good idea, and I just didn't know how wood reacted to long term storage. The required storage space for 3 years of wood for example would be quite large too.

When it comes to storage space, it sounds like pellets use much less space then wood logs. I would need to get solar and battery backup for the pellet stove though, in case the power went off. Again, I'm not sure about the shelf life of pellets though. I've heard with moving parts, you also have to consider pellet stoves breaking down, and knowing how to replace or repair broken parts.

Are there any backup sources of the liquid variety that would at least keep my pipes from freezing during the winter months? Such as propane or kerosene portable heaters? How do these sources of fuel store?

Perhaps I'm overlooking a source of heat that trumps these all for backup heating, that someone here is aware of?

Again, any information is appreciated.

[Ludi]

Passive solar heating and thermal mass, as well as warm clothing, are your best bet if you're going to have to rely on a supplier for your fuel, in my opinion, unless you're talking about a backup for a short-term emergency, in which case you can pick whatever you prefer. But if we're talking long-term, relying on a supplier isn't a viable option, in my opinion.

[PeakOilPrincess]

How about buying coal? It stores well (like forever) and you can burn it in a wood/coal stove.

[WisJim]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Torjus', '
')
Tip 2: To test if the wood is dry enough to burn, smear liquid soap on one end of the piece. Blow in the end without soap on it. If the blowing creates bubbles on the soapy surface end; it is dry. If not, store it.

[TorrKing]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WisJim', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Torjus', '
')
Tip 2: To test if the wood is dry enough to burn, smear liquid soap on one end of the piece. Blow in the end without soap on it. If the blowing creates bubbles on the soapy surface end; it is dry. If not, store it.

[strider3700]

lots of large buried tanks of propane. I can't imagine it will be cheaper 5 years from now and it does last almost forever. Way longer then gas anyways.

[WisJim]

Gasoline has a limited storage life without adding more preservative to it, and I'm not sure how often that would need to be done. Diesel (and kerosene and other liquid fuels) is similar, but doesn't deteriorate as fast. If your propane tank or any piping or fittings leak, it's gone before you realize it.

I like wood. Keep it reasonably dry, mostly off the ground, and it will take many decades to deteriorate when cut and split and stacked. Plant trees, and your fuel supply is continuous, depending on the tools you need to harvest it.

Of course it isn't easy to fuel your car with wood, but if things are that bad, I just want to stay home anyway.

[gnm]

The propane and wood ideas are good. And if you REALLY want to run that car off wood...

Producer gas car

-G