[whereagles]

hum.. from mmunroe's post it looks like ultracapacitors' uses are limited. Still, engine start/stop and domestic usage are good applications of the tech.

[JRP3]

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/01 ... .html#more
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')EStor, the developer of a new high-power-density ceramic ultracapacitor (the Energy Storage Unit—EESU), has broken a long public silence and announced reaching two key production milestones. First, its automated production line has been proven to meet the requirements for precise chemical delivery, purity control, parameter control and stability.

Second, EEStor has completed the initial milestone of certifying purification, concentration, and stability of all of its key production chemicals—notably the attainment of 99.9994% purity of its barium nitrate powder. The independent 3rd party chemical analysis was completed by Southwest Research Institute, Inc. located in San Antonio, Texas under contract with EEStor, Inc.

[NeoPeasant]

I hope that not too many resources get squandered and not too many investors get wiped out in the pursuit of this electric car for the masses dead end.

One day soon we will will realize that energy is real important for things like producing food and distributing water and staying warm and stuff. And that we have already pissed away far too much of it on the ridiculous concept of personal automobility for everyone. I'm not saying that a breakthrough in electrical energy storage wouldn't be a good thing, just that it shouldn't be wasted on trying to extend the automobile age.

[gg3]

Hey NeoPeasant: Do you want your produce delivered to the farmers' market in a refrigerated van so it stays fresh, or in an un-refrigerated horse-drawn wagon where some of it goes bad along the way? Do you want your refuse collected in an enclosed vehicle or by an open horse-drawn wagon that's buzzing with flies? And I suppose people who are older or disabled and can't pedal to town and back should be stuck at home to watch the world go by through their front windows..?

Oh, and what are you going to do about all the horse shit? Before motorized transport, it was 12 to 18 inches deep on the streets of most cities.

Well...?

[KhanCEO]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
')Oh, and what are you going to do about all the horse shit? Before motorized transport, it was 12 to 18 inches deep on the streets of most cities.

Well...?

[blukatzen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KhanCEO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '
')Oh, and what are you going to do about all the horse shit? Before motorized transport, it was 12 to 18 inches deep on the streets of most cities.

Well...?

[undertaker]

Cleaning horse manure from the streets and gathering it to sell to farmers and gardeners would be a truly useful job, unlike travel agents, salespeople, marketing executives, telemarketers, etc., etc.

I used to work mucking stables and it was a great job. Horse manure doesn't even smell bad. It's just partially digested grass or hay.

[WisJim]

Food sold at farmers marked could be produced close enough that refrigerated transportation isn't required. The local farmer's market is mostly growers within 5 to 10 miles, and the only ones with refrigeration are selling meat or dairy products.

The big problem with food transportation is that food is shipped a lot farther than necessary. Local growers is part of the solution. Use energy to extendt the growing season to grow food locally.

[JRP3]

All good points, but missing the main point. The personal transportation industry will continue as long as it can. Switching to electric vehicles is a positive step. If batteries like the NanoSafe and ultracaps like the EEStor work as advertised and last as expected, there are many ways to generate power with little impact on small scale. Enough to power once or twice weekly trips to market if necessary. Home solar and wind generation doesn't have to be a large system if you don't need to drive the vehicle every day. Vehicles will also last longer if not driven daily, so fewer resources will be consumed in manufacturing.

Most importantly of course, population needs to be controlled if anything is going to work.

[diemos]

I have no idea why they promote this for transport when its application with real impact is home storage. Put one of these in the basement and you can store enough power for two days of normal household usage. Store solar and wind and top off with cheap grid power at night and you have a major impact on our electrical system. These will mitigate peak load issues on the grid and make intermittent power sources practical. I forsee one in every home if they can actually deliver.

[JRP3]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', 'I') have no idea why they promote this for transport when its application with real impact is home storage.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'H')ey NeoPeasant: Do you want your produce delivered to the farmers' market in a refrigerated van so it stays fresh, or in an un-refrigerated horse-drawn wagon where some of it goes bad along the way? Do you want your refuse collected in an enclosed vehicle or by an open horse-drawn wagon that's buzzing with flies? And I suppose people who are older or disabled and can't pedal to town and back should be stuck at home to watch the world go by through their front windows..?

Oh, and what are you going to do about all the horse shit? Before motorized transport, it was 12 to 18 inches deep on the streets of most cities.

Well...?

[zoidberg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JRP3', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('diemos', 'I') have no idea why they promote this for transport when its application with real impact is home storage.

[lardlad]

More: http://www.techreview.com/Biztech/18086/

[BigTex]

Is anyone aware of anything happening on the ultracapacitor front since the original post?

[JRP3]

http://peakoil.com/fortopic26398.html

[JRP3]

EEStor still alive. And kicking?

Lockheed Martin

Interview
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')re you confident that their technology will offer a greater amount of energy and power density than batteries?
Yes, and at a fraction of the cost.

Do their caps hold 10x the energy at 1/10th the weight of a lead acid battery?
Yes.

[steam_cannon]

Looks like a technology to keep an eye on. I saw a pretty good story of success using flow batteries on King Island Australia for evening out wind power. They halved the islands imports of diesel for electric generating. Technologies like this could make renewable power generation like wind power much more feasible. Plus it may be used for many other activities of modern life.

I liked Kingcoal's comment today about electricity storage.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '[')u]Electric storage is the holy grail of our energy problems. Electricity, if it can be stored efficiently, is a perfect universal energy conduit; you can do anything with it including heat your home. Electric motors are in excess of 90% efficient and only run when they have to, no need for idling. Compare that to an internal combustion engine which is perhaps 10% efficient when you factor in all the time the engine idles, thus wasting energy. Electricity can be generated in a variety of ways; the big problem has always been storing it. If we get some big breakthroughs in battery technology, then you'll see electric cars in the future. Similarly, if you can store electricity large scale, then all of it that is wasted during off peak hours can be salvaged and that is an enormous amount of energy.

--------------------------------------------------------
Clip from:
Flow batteries, cheaper than lead acid, large scale storage
http://peakoil.com/fortopic35412.html

[Demoth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor

http://www.technologyreview.com/read_ar ... d=18086&a=

http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/21171/?a=f

The claims seem far fetched, but their facilities impressed a few Lockheed-Martin exects enough that they are risking their careers. Some of the guys heavily involved in EESTOR, like Dick Weir and Topfur from Dell, are already rich. What would they gain scamming a few million from a few investors with a non-publically traded company. Maybe a few million off Zenn stock. They had to spend enough of it to satisfy their investors with their facilities.

But they would know scaming Lockheed-Martin or even making them look bad would start a full investigation by the government. EESTOR is Texas based and not many con men would target a defense contractor.

So, if EESTOR's claims are even 75% true, we could be seeing 500 mile range electrics that charge in 5 minutes (at a station or with a home mod). We would be talking $10 worth of energy for 500 full miles. Better with some nano-solar supplimentation.

And on the grid side, renewable would be a reilable 24/7 source. Solar, wind, wave. Cheap and efficient storage has been a big barrier.

These people are claiming they have a ultra capacitor with energy storage up to 3X superior to the best lithiums by production time and only a .01% per month self discharge rate. Meaning I could forget my car somewhere for 50 years and still drive it across state. Half the price per stored watt-hour as lead-acid batteries. And no degradation from charge/discharge cycles means no replacements will ever be needed.

So, I guess by next year we will know. The claims seem beyond belief, but the people involved stand to lose everything once the con was uncovered.

Just something to watch, but not get too excited over, at least until/unless a prototype is independently inspected.
Hopefully, if the tech does exist, it won't get repressed or severely delayed by oil interests.

[Spanktron9]

The company has been making these claims for quite a while. They are seriously behind schedule.While their product is "theoritically" feasible, most Electrical engineers I know, don't believe in the effectiveness of the application.


I hope it does work though!