[KevO]

US producer prices rose by just 0.1% last month as the amount spent by businesses on energy moderated after recent sharp price rises.
Wholesale energy prices rose just 0.3% in August, following July's 1.3% jump, while gasoline prices fell 2.2%. Separate data published on Tuesday showed a 6% fall in house construction.
FULL ARTICLE HERE

[Armageddon]

i own a small construction company, and i will testify that things are really slowing down.

[NordicHero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('armegeddon', 'i') own a small construction company, and i will testify that things are really slowing down.

[dukey]

without fertlisers and pestices
we are going to need a LOT more land to produce the same amount of food as we currently do

fertilisers and pesticides let us have awesome crop yields ..

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NordicHero', '
')Buy say 40 acres of productive land. Subdivide into 10 parcels and build small, efficient cottages using free and cheap, recycled materials. Outfit each home to be self-sufficient for water and energy using solar, wind, and rainwater collection. Also, dig ponds, plant orchards, bike paths, etc.

Basically, develop a small permaculture village; and then sell each home for a handsome profit. I think the demand exists for this type of neighborhood, and we all believe that future circumstances will compel us to live that way.

[NordicHero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', '
')Not sure whether you've priced any of these out. If you want to be self-sufficient for electric your choices are - use 1/10 of a normal household's usage, spend 100k on a photovoltaic/battery/wind system, or become Amish.

Instead of rainwater collection, if feasable, I'd recommend a hand pump. Worked well enough for many years before "town water."

[RdSnt]

I had a friend who's father was quite a conscientious owner of the housing construction company. He truly wanted to build affordable housing for lower income people.
He was a very successful developer and with his own money developed a subdivision, built good quality practical houses, and put a fair price on them.
He couldn't sell them. People thought there must be something wrong with brand new houses that were substantially lower than the market. Many didn't want to be associated with "welfare" houses.

In disgust the building gave up, polished the houses up with lipstick, boosted the prices to be upscale prices and had no trouble selling them. He made a killing.

People want castles (even when they can't afford them). We've become innured to living way beyond our means.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NordicHero', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('armegeddon', 'i') own a small construction company, and i will testify that things are really slowing down.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NordicHero', 'B')uy say 40 acres of productive land. Subdivide into 10 parcels and build small, efficient cottages using free and cheap, recycled materials. Outfit each home to be self-sufficient for water and energy using solar, wind, and rainwater collection. Also, dig ponds, plant orchards, bike paths, etc.

[NordicHero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I') don't think people are anywhere near ready to buy such houses. If you had forty acres that you were thinking of developing like this in the future, planting a bunch of 5ft fruit trees and digging the ponds would be the right thing to do now. Trees take a long time to grow, ponds take a while to fill, settle, and come into a state of equilibrium. Wind and especially solar could be much cheaper in a few years.

McMansions are certainly slowing, but they are still selling; and simple 1500 sqft houses like mine are not in particularly high demand.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NordicHero', 'E')ven if it's only a tiny fraction of the population interested in such a house, if it's near a city with 1 million people, there will be at least a few hundred parties interested in buying. And one would only need to sell 10. Then the developer walk aways with their profits; or, do it again and make even more money because of the previous experience.

Also, if it's a reasonable assumption that demand for this type of subdivision will grow in the not so distant future, why not be one of the first in the game?

[NordicHero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '4')0 acre * 25,000 / acre = 1,000,000
base house, 1200sf = 120,000 / hs
elec gen house = 15,000 / hs

Basically, you're asking people to buy a small house for $250,000 ?
Would a bank even approve such a loan? Would it appraise well enough to even qualify at 20% down?

As to why not be first, the first one in usually freezes to death.

[rwwff]

I'm sorry to be a pain.. but most small projects done in stages, never get past stage one. To sell it as an ecologically friendly and sustainable community, you need to get all those houses down, and deed restrictions in place to keep it that way.

Secondly, the type of people that are going to buy in, would be sorta-hippy, but they're going to want fairly high end, quality fixtures and such; stuff that doesn't have to be replaced every ten years. Small kitchen, but solid cabinetry, good long term pantry storage, granite countertops; etc. Otherwise, when they see it, they'll think, "how nice, people can live sustainably..." all the time thinking about their gardener or maid service personell living there. Maybe that offends an ethical principle, I dunno; but if you want ten families to buy these houses, you've got to follow the market.

Otherwise, you're competing with the guy who'll just buy 10 acres himself, and park a small mobile home on it, and call it done.

[NordicHero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I')'m sorry to be a pain.. but most small projects done in stages, never get past stage one. To sell it as an ecologically friendly and sustainable community, you need to get all those houses down, and deed restrictions in place to keep it that way.

Secondly, the type of people that are going to buy in, would be sorta-hippy, but they're going to want fairly high end, quality fixtures and such; stuff that doesn't have to be replaced every ten years. Small kitchen, but solid cabinetry, good long term pantry storage, granite countertops; etc. Otherwise, when they see it, they'll think, "how nice, people can live sustainably..." all the time thinking about their gardener or maid service personell living there. Maybe that offends an ethical principle, I dunno; but if you want ten families to buy these houses, you've got to follow the market.

Otherwise, you're competing with the guy who'll just buy 10 acres himself, and park a small mobile home on it, and call it done.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'L')ook Nordic Hero, it's a noble idea and I support your enthusiasm and your right to do it. I think it sounds glorious.

So does flying by flapping my arms, but I don't seet that working out either.