[uncarve_db_lock]

Living in a state where we have a "relatively "active seccesion movement, west of the whites and east of the 'dacks, I wonder how feasible of an action is this path granted in many states constitutions. Our movement actually made it the point where there was a statewide conference in the main chamber of our statehouse, with such "esteemed" speakers as Jimmy Kunstler himself. Since then though it seems that it basically has taken a form of publications, talks, and general discussion. What my main question regards the chain of events that will eventually lead to a point in time where we are defending our borders from a)armies from the Empire or b)famished hordes from "over yonder". One of the points made by the founder of the movement is in response to a question of "What do we do?" in which he said "nothing" because in his view "The Administration" is doing all the work all we have to do is wait for the collapse. I can see this arguement but at the same time, I feel that there needs to be some grand unified Thoureuvian style form of civil disobedience to bring even just the concept of independence to the masses mind, a moder Tea Party of sorts.
Any other folks involved with any type of seccesion movement out there? Would love to hear whats going on.

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Strange women lying in ponds distrubuting swords is no basis for a system of government. - Constitutional Peasant

[rwwff]

Legally speaking, seccession is currently illegal. Should conditions worsen to the point that federal systems can't work; and the federal government is unwilling or unable to create an alternate plan, states could call a constutional convention and build a different sort of arrangement.

I don't see why that would occur though.. The US constitution predates the industrial oil age easily; and will likely outlive the industrial oil age, one way or another.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uncarve_db_lock', 'W')hat my main question regards the chain of events that will eventually lead to a point in time where we are defending our borders from a)armies from the Empire or b)famished hordes from "over yonder".

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'T')he US constitution predates the industrial oil age easily; and will likely outlive the industrial oil age, one way or another.

[gego]

I think that this is one possible path that states will take in the future, but conditions would need to be far worse than they are now. Even a depression of the 1930 type would be unlikely to percipitate a break up of the USA.

A collapse of the type Richard Duncan describes where we fall off of an energy cliff would be a sufficient trigger. With less and less available energy, the effectiveness of government will also suffer and a strong central government would be more difficult to maintain than more localized governments. Decentralization and localization will likely be the hallmark of the post peak era, both economically and politically.

It will be interesting to be an observer of these events as they develop, that is if one can survive.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'T')he US constitution predates the industrial oil age easily; and will likely outlive the industrial oil age, one way or another.

[uncarve_db_lock]

It seems that a true seccession starts at the bottom and then works its way up to the top where it eventually becomes organized government. In my state of Vermont there are plenty of folks who for all intense purposes have already symbolically seperated themselves from the Union, as I know many folks in this forum have or are planning to do so. In effect it really comes down to, having just read the "Why are there so many guns in the US post", having a man on the ground with a rifle, good crops, some animals, etc, etc.
My main issues with organized seccession is that it is more talk and, the ripe situation for it to actually happen in which I become a citizen of the Republic of Vermont, is so far away (or so it seems). It is true though that it will take a whole pile of shit landing on the total global situation for an extended period of time before we can start removing stars from the flag. Plus, what sort of facist government is going to let a huge population of potential soldiers and workers peacefully take themselves away from the machine.
As far as making the problems worse versus better, there are a couple of points that can be argued on both sides, lack of funding from Uncle Sam, sanctions, general getting the shit kicked out of us, etc, etc but there is also the possibility that with a situation of suddenly being free from all sorts of bullshit like taxation without representation, draconian drug laws, rampant military bullshit, etc, etc a whole new realm of possibilities would arise that emphasize sustainability, principled understanding of the fact that we humans are not the fucking apex of the universe but that we are special in the same right that a dew drop on a blade of grass is, etc, etc.
Anyways, I'm thinking of starting out with building a fence around the property and then putting signs declaring that one is entering a free and independent chunk of land, even if its only few acres. I feel I could logically argue my right to it given enough time and a big enough library.

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Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?

[Laughs_Last]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'T')he US constitution predates the industrial oil age easily; and will likely outlive the industrial oil age, one way or another.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', 'W')ar debt ended up being about $35 per resident.

[TommyJefferson]

For every $1.00 Vermont sends to the federal government, it gets back $1.12 in federal spending.

Vermont is a subsidised state. It would lose money by seceding from the Union.

[Tyler_JC]

New Hampshire on the other hand is a being robbed by the rest of the country to the tune of 33 cents for every dollar it puts in.

Only the very wealthy states of Connecticut and New Jersey are more pillaged than New Hampshire.

My home state, Massachusetts, loses 23 cents out of every dollar it sends in.

I'm tired of subsidizing the lazy people in New Mexico, Alaska, West Virginia, Mississippi, North Dakota, and Alabama that get more than a $1.70 for every dollar they put in.

Granted, this welfare does help make the country more equitable, but it's not the job of the federal government to redistribute money from one state to another.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', 'G')erman contractors made up approximately 1/3 the force.

[Laughs_Last]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', 'G')erman contractors made up approximately 1/3 the force.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', '.')..contractors...

[IslandCrow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Laughs_Last', 'J')ust adapting to the modern English usage. Its all pretty subjective, were they Americans or Colonists, Rebels or Patriots? Wasn't the Boston Tea Party an act of false flag terrorism?

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'L')egally speaking, seccession is currently illegal.