[Eli]

Let me say that I think the Pope could have made his point in away that was much more clear and direct and he could have done it in a way that would not have been as offensive to muslims. As the Pope he should have been challenging to muslims without being so patently offensive.
That being said he will have to be very careful on what he says next, he can't make a blanket apology for getting close to the truth.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')[8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand

[ClassicSpiderman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'L')et me say that I think the Pope could have made his point in away that was much more clear and direct and he could have done it in a way that would not have been as offensive to muslims. As the Pope he should have been challenging to muslims without being so patently offensive.

[ClassicSpiderman]

My response to the original poster:

THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA has turned the Pope into a NEO-CON.

The last two Popes have been opposed to the Iraq war and have always condemnded Israeli violence against the Palestinians. Ie: THIS IS BAD FOR ISRAEL.

Funny how the mainstream media is able to find a few choice sentences out of context to make him look like a Muslim-hating neocon so that the idiotic Imams can fan the flames of hatred and make the Muslims look like overreacting idiots (again). Ie: THIS IS GOOD FOR ISRAEL.

[Eli]

Well the Pope has now apologized. He has said that he is sorry that so many muslims are upset by what he said.

[Atlantean_Relic]

The Muslims doth protest too much, methinks.

[ClassicSpiderman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'W')ell the Pope has now apologized. He has said that he is sorry that so many muslims are upset by what he said.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seldom_seen', '
')I've never seen such a hyper-sensitive group of people, why are they so insecure about their religion?

[Denny]

The harder the Muslims fight to show their opposition to what the pope said (or more correctly, quoted, in a philosophical discussion about how others have viewed the long standing issue of of religious conversion by force) the more they are making their own cause weak. Like back in the spring, when the Islamic extremists were protesting against the cartoons, and calling for beheading people who claimed Islam was violent.

I am a Christian, and am undoubtedly biased to some degree. I see that in any sphere of faith, or even atheism for that matter, when one gets so pushy with their point of view that they can think of doing harm to others as a way of achieving their ideals, they discredit their own cause.

Most of the extremes of this nature in the cause of Christianity were not led by the religious, they were led by materialist secular people using faith as a rallying point for other ends. Much of the corrupt European monarchy of the past thousand years used religion expression as a tool to further their selfish objectives. But, remember, at the same time, the real Christians, like St. Francis of Assisi, espoused peace and humility.

And the missionaries who came to the New World did not use the sword to extend Christianity, they appealed by reason, and by example. Right through the nineteenth century, native peoples were a mix of pagan and Christian. Check the history of the Spanish and French missions. They extolled, they did not kill, except indavertently by the spread of European diseases. And, in this regard they were not selective, they "killed" the converted at a higher rate than the unconverted.

I don't like the combination I see in Islam of state and religion rolled into one force, especially as their idea of an ideal state.

[Eli]

Ok cool.

The internet is a very imperfect tool dor communication.

I agree totally about the Pope being a neocon bit. The people who say that are ignorant of the terms.

The Pope as one of the leaders of the Christian world has a duty to point out the truth as he sees it. I would like him to put muslims on the spot because the more I come to understand their faith and read the quran directly the more it is clear that it is evil.

His apology was exactly what I thought he would say. Another way to interpret it is he said "I am sorry you muslims are all so stark raving mad and full of hate at what I said."

The easiest way to piss off a muslim is to ask them honest questions about their faith. Not the usual ones that non believers do to christians, where all they want to do is make fun of what they believe or try to sew doubt.
But honest ones about what their scriptures say and what they truly believe.

Keep in mind that lying and being deceptive to non-bleviers about Islam is prescribed in the text it self.

The Pope repeats statements about how Islam is violent and was spread by the sword. The muslim world response by making death threats fire bombing churches and muredering a nun.

Nothing violent there, no sir.

The only thing the Pope did is get too close to the truth.

[NEOPO]

you are confused.

As if there was never and never could again be ... a reason to fight.

Just another example of the apathy bred by some religions.
Come er' let me punch ya in the face so you can show the world how you are a true christian by turning the other cheek....
Hardly.

Its not just fighting - its fighting back.
It is resistance however futile or misled.
It is the "spirit" and minus total world annihilation it will never die.

pftt....religious crap SHOULD be removed from public places......they are PUBLIC which means "for us all" not just "you christians".

Imagine a public square that allowed all religions to be represented.......
100 nay 1000 billboards each proclaiming a different version of "the truth".
Imagine - one of them would be from the church of satan......boy I bet that would get the fundamentalist's sabre rattling.
Another billboard would be dedicated to the KKK and yet another to the Church of alternate sexuality..... etc etc.....

What you see as an attack on religion I see as the defense of the seperation of church and state.

hmmm if not for materialistic secular people promoting religion for their own benefit.....I seriously doubt if many of the worlds modern religions would even exist.

If not for the ambition of Constantine the first ....do you honestly believe that most of todays xtians would be xtians?

Would america defend israel?
Would we have "in god we trust" printed on our currency?
Would we attempt to daily brainwash our children in school by having them recite the pledge of allegiance to the republic "under god"?

Nope - these same people would believe in something else.
More then likely they would believe in whatever it was they were fed by TPTB.

The extremities of religion may have been initiated by TPTB but it is the commoner who either fights against injustice and tyranny or who AS OFTEN IS THE CASE quietly goes along with it.
Silence and Apathy KILLS.

When you have an army behind you - you do not neccessarily have to carry a sword yourself.
The missionaries goal was to bring about the end of times as it is written that once the entire world is aware of christianity then the finality of christianity will occur.

Imagine - the church supports the state supports the system supports homelessness, joblessness and poverty.
Then the church can seem the good guy by giving handout's to the "needy" while also passing out bibles and otherwise converting more to thier beliefs.

Another example would be how "god" is being used in AA and NA and these "treatments" are mandated by both local and federal government.

I especially enjoy rural white churchs inviting inner city youth to pizza parties

You dont see any reason to fight?
I dont see any reason not to.

[Kachina]

Sept 10th, 1991 The day before 911.

The Middle East was much quieter.

911 occurs and the Judeao-Christian (Neo-Cons and President) the political right identifies Islam as the culprit...the President goes on TV and actually uses the word crusade.

Even though not one Iraqi is on the list of 911 terrorists...Iraq is attacked...makes total sense to me.

The political hacks then have the consuming public totally manipulated with fear using WMD and anthrax as reasons to invade Iraq.
The 'ole 'incubator' story was already used in the first Gulf War, thus this marketing ploy to get the American public in line with Neo-Con thinking cannot be used again.
Remember you dumb consuming Americans how they drew your sorry ass ino the First Gulf War... by manufacturing lies about babies incubators being knocked over... (chief witness later turned out to be related to Kuwait royalty, the story had been manufactured by a New York PR firm.

You stupid Americans piss me off. Pay attention to the lies coming out of your Black (white?) House of Death in Washington.
Now repeat after me and NOT your dumbass Prez...

Fool me once...shame on you
Fool me twice...shame on me.

But for those of you who support everything that America was….

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." -G.W. the Burning Bush

Now some facts…

No Iraqis were involved in 911
No WMD found in Iraq
No evidence against Saddam (like Milosovic who eventually died)
No common sense shown by those who support the US rampaging throughout the world...

And finally the obvious … would these discussions be taking place if the US had NOT invaded Iraqi based on a pretence of manufactured lies?

...this is the bottom line that ALWAYS seems to be deflected with OTHER issues...
Did the US commit War Crimes is the real issue here.
I have more respect for Islam getting up every morning at 5am and bowing to Allah than I do for the Judeao/Christians living in a material world arriving home form partying all night in casinos and bars.

Most Judaeo/Christians are hypocrites...to their faith.
The average Muslim has more 'faith' than the average Judeao/Christian.
They are willing to strap a bomb to their body and look their enemy in the eyes...the indocrinated Jew and Christian likes to push buttons and kill woman, children and maybe the target at a distance...cowards showing little faith in what they are doing.

Go Islam go ... rah rah rah

I always go for the underdog.

Ahh yes this thread is about the Poop. T
The Pope was not turned into a Neo-Con...he resides much, much higher...he is the representative of the anti-Christ...where else would Satan dwell?

The Vaticans opulence is more representive of an evil entity than a Church professing generosity of spirit or material worth...
Where is the humbleness of the Vatican...where?

Just my opinion.

But all three religions appear to be following a ‘timeline’.

Ciao
Kachina

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'I')f not for the ambition of Constantine the first ....do you honestly believe that most of todays xtians would be xtians?

[seahorse]

Keep this in mind, the internet to me is good entertainment, not to be taken too seriously.

With that in mind, and with the Pope's recent "Neocon" comments in mind, has does this play into the theory that this Pope is the last pope before the end times?

See this link, that Pope Benedict is the last before "Revelations."

Last Pope

[Eli]

I thought there was one more Pope after Benedict, Peter the Roman?

Personaly I have read the Bible and I just do not see the justification for pretribulation rapture theology.

The Pope better wear body armorer when he goes to Turkey because I think ye old religion of peace wants to give him a small gift traveling at high rate of speed.

[NEOPO]

Then he can be as his followers - brain dead.

Rwwff - at least if we worshipped Mars there would be no hiding our true intent.

[PenultimateManStanding]

If they hadn't become Christians, wouldn't it have been Mithraism? The old Greco-Roman gods were tired and probably traveled to another planet to start over again.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I')f they hadn't become Christians, wouldn't it have been Mithraism? The old Greco-Roman gods were tired and probably traveled to another planet to start over again.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gideon', 'H')e says that Islam was spread at the point of a sword?

[NEOPO]

Lorenzo - who were the #1 persecutors of the christians?

Then once you answer that question I want to add "yes and that was only once they were done persecuting the indigenous european religions"....

I wonder if this Pope still has his NAZI YOUTH badges, pins and medals

[FourOfSwords]

I usually do not venture into such a charged atomsphere, but I thought I might add a different perspective to this discussion.
Between people on similar threads talking so casually about 'nuking' other nations and their inhabitants, and folks on this thread basically shouting ' my religion is superior to yours', it's becoming rather clear just how callous human beings are themselves becoming.
I am very fortunate to be able to see the world anew through the eyes of my five year old daughter. She, and kids her age thank goodness, see things much more clearly than any of us adults probably ever will, no matter where you live, no matter what your culture or religion. When my daughter asks questions like " Who is this God guy anyway?", " How do I make him hear me?" and " Why can't I hear him talk out loud to me?" They kinda get to the crux of the matter, don't they?
What you've been discussing is ORGANIZED religion, and this is where all the bad stuff, and misinterpretations begin.
In counterpoint I'd like to offer a more HUMAN approach to this thread and similar other one's.
THINGS I DONT WANT MY DAUGHTER TO EXPERIENCE:

- Vaporized by a nuclear
weapon from some power
crazy nation/leader.
- Lie dead under the rubble
caused by some laser guided
missle, no matter who
launched it.
-Be sold into the sex trade
just to line some bastards'
pockets with money.
-Live in filth and poverty
so that a few elite can
live a life of luxury.
-Die of AIDS because more
money is spent on war and
weapons than on health and
education.
-Die starving and cold in a
in squat in a PO world.
THINGS I WANT MY DAUGHTER TO EXPERIENCE:

- Her first kiss
-The warm sun on her face on a cold day.
- Cold Ice cream on a hot summer day.
- Walking hand in hand with her boyfriend on a moonlit night.
- Feel the joy of the birth of her first child.
- Sit on her dad's lap when he is an old geezer and still give
him a hug and kiss and say ' daddy I love you'..
I imagine anyone,anywhere in the world, no matter their religion, wishes for these things.
More compassion is needed folks. ALL religions teach this.
Alex.