[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'B')ut this notion that "A homeland that excludes people based on religion is inherently evil" is silly and naive.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Balfour', '.')... it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')ll bets were off when the Arabs tried to kill them. The Balfour thing wasn't so clairvoyant after all.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')ll bets were off when the Arabs tried to kill them. The Balfour thing wasn't so clairvoyant after all.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ep, you got that right. So where do we go from here, rog? You've got all the answers.

[PenultimateManStanding]

I'm surprised that the Nordic Hero guy and foodnotlawns haven't weighed in on this. The Jews are survivors. They've been up against bad odds for thousands of years. They used their intelligence as best they knew how, trained in arts of thought and intelligence. It brought them to dead-ends like Bolshevism. And criminality. Bolshevism was far worse than criminality, it was murderous on a grand scale, but those poor slobs didn't know. Maybe they did it on a subconscious level, I don't know, but Stalin wasn't a Jew, and he murdered the old Bolsheviks. It also brought them to the arts of modernity and creativity. I do think that the Jews are puzzled by their history and a little bit insecure about it. I don't know how much God plays in their thinking, and how much it is just a sense of community. But Hanah Arendt suggested that it was just that undying sense of community that doomed them in the deracinated, uprooted Europe of atomized lost souls. Envy killed the Jews. They were people who knew how to celebrate the big events of life. People with tradition. Other envious people who are profoundly unhappy about their alienated state will strike out at such grounded folks. We see it still. Carry on, Israel!

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'E')nvy killed the Jews.

[Eli]

Rog your solution of just following UN resolution 242 would be great if it was not for the fact that the Palestinians and specifically Yassar Arafat turned it down.

Ehud Barak offered him nearly everything that resolution 242 calls for, the sticking point was the "just settlement" for Palestinian refugees. That is when Yassar demanded that the Palestinians be allowed to move back into Israel.



Speaking about religious Jews I think their biggest problem is a spiritual one at its core. They missed the best thing to ever come out of the Jewish faith ie Jesus Christ.

Jesus, when he came and preached hated the legalism of the Pharisees and stood up against it. If you look at modern Rabbinical Judaism today it directly comes from the same Pharisees.

The Pharisees being lawyers at heart did what lawyers love to do and that is play words games and twist the law into meaning exactly the opposite of what it says.

All this legalism requires lots of BSing so that his how when Rabbis talk about the Torah there are two meanings today. One is the written Torah which is the first five books of the bible. The other meaning is the whole of Jewish thinking and teaching including everything up till this very day. Religious Jews are lost in all this legalism.

The religious Jews are still acting and behaving like the old law is all there is and are totally oblivious to the teachings of Jesus Christ their Savior. Basically they want the promise land of God but not the promised Messiah of God.

Actually many Orthodox Jews are still making the same mistake the Pharisees made, that is they are still looking for a King to lead them just like David did even though.

Isaiah 53: 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

They still want the warring old law David to come in and give them the land and everything they see as rightfully theirs.

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'B')ut this notion that "A homeland that excludes people based on religion is inherently evil" is silly and naive.

[Eli]

Well Miki

Only the Ultra-Orthodox think that way and even among them I think it is a minority.

Most Jews in Israel are non-practicing or liberal.

I think most Jews think along the lines that they have to have a homeland of their own because of the attempts in the past to wipe them out by their host nations. Most Israelis would be over joyed to have peace with the Palestinians, If Arafat would have excepted Ehud Baraks offer back at Camp David.

But I agree that the racist nature of Israel Government is not democratic as compared to the US. The US was founded in large part because people specifically wanted religious freedom. Israel was founded so the Jews could have a homeland and they wouldn't killed anymore.

The Ultra Orthodox probably think it does not matter what I think since I am Goyim. I can't say what I would believe if, I have a hard enough time with what I believe now.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')nvy killed the Jews. They were people who knew how to celebrate the big events of life. People with tradition. Other envious people who are profoundly unhappy about their alienated state will strike out at such grounded folks. We see it still. Carry on, Israel!