[Sencha]

Does anyone have any experiences in which you hear people talking about their future plans, but don't know about Peak Oil? How does that make you feel?

Has anyone found themselves telling others about their personal plans for the future even though they aren't possible because of P.O.?

My parents are always talking about all the opportunities I'm going to have, and everything I'm going to get to do. I hate that, I don't believe them. I hate their ignorance, that they have no idea. If someone takes the ramifications of peak oil to heart, like myself, the last thing they want to hear about is everything they're going to have.

It's like telling a dying kid, that doctors are going to find a cure to his terminal illness, even though the kid knows he'll be dead in weeks.

I tell people what I plan to do, and the life I'm going to have, even though I no longer believe its possible.

I can't stand this crap. My relatives talk about how hard they work to get what they want, and all I can think of is that they're going to lose it all. I can't say anything, I can't tell them the truth.

What the hell is supposed to happen when or if the SHTF and everyone around me is going WTF? What am I supposed to do then? Act dumb (which I admit, wouldn't be entirely acting) or say, "I knew it all along!"

I wish it would all just happen tomorrow, the waiting around is the hardest part of all this. I can't tell anyone IRL what I'm really thinking. "Well, I'm probably not going to get that job, because the economy will collapse and/or the place of employment will be bombed out." is that what I'm supposed to say?

I have to entertain all these childish ideas for the future, which completely disregards the reality of finite resources. The war in Iraq is just a war in Iraq, to these people. Oil prices keep rising, but nobody cares. Why would they? Don't they have reality TV to watch or something?

[Guest]

I know the feeling. I was talking to a friend of mine about his future plans and he said he wanted to be a doctor. I didn't have the heart to tell him that by the time he made it out of medical school, he would have almost no chance of paying down that debt. I didn't tell him because it would have crushed his spirit. (and he never would have talked to me again)

3 weeks ago I was having a debate with someone on why we should increase the gas tax. She said that raising the gas tax would hurt the poor and that they need cheap gas to get to work.
I died a little on the inside when I asked her what they would do when "he Market" doubled the price of gas. She didn't have an answer but instead regarded my statement as insanity. Thus, ending the debate with me looking like a maniac.

[Freud]

maybe because you're prophesizing about the unknown and the poor only care about the current.......

[jesus_of_suburbia_old]

I would think that you friend is in pretty good shape if he does graduate medical school. I've never heard anyone say that we have too many doctors on this planet.

[Freud]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jrob8503', 'I') would think that you friend is in pretty good shape if he does graduate medical school. I've never heard anyone say that we have too many doctors on this planet.

[Schneider]

I feel your pain .. Most of the time,i can't almost keep my mouth closed when someone talk of his future or dreams !

Sometimes,it is really hard to just get out of the rank and to be alone while everybody think you're the one insane ,isn't !?

I try my best to explain,but 99,9% of the time ,THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO FACE THE TRUE..Too hard to take it,and watch their dreams going to the garbage can !

It is human,it can even be understood (even for myself,it was so hard to swallow it)..BUT BLOODY HELL, IT IS MERELY A GOD DAMN SUICIDE !!!!

Schneider
French-Canadian

[Terran]

I know the feeling, I feel the same when someone ask me what I want to do after highschool, and I really don't feel like talking about my real plans. The people will just think I'm a nutcase. Well I just tell them about the plans I had in mind several years ago before I found out about peak oil. That is what I do, and it is working.
If they tell me about their plans I don't make negative comments about it, I just tell them wish you luck in whatever your trying to become, and that is it. Sometimes I feel a little guilty but I get over it.

[savethehumans]

Ah, Sencha, I hear you....

I often feel disjointed from this society, as if I am in one place and they are in another--a kind of half-dimension apart. Today the world is the place and system they have known all their lives; nothing seems particularly out of the ordinary. People come and go from work, from errands, from shopping, from school. They tsk-tsk the latest news (at the moment, the Biggest Story On The Planet seems to have to do with a player-fan scuffle at an NBA basketball game ). You try to say ANYthing about ANYthing, and it's, "oh, it's always worked out somehow, don't worry about it." They are going to rake us through the coals for not telling them, but we DID try to tell them, they just selectively forget about that--cuz to admit it would be saying that they didn't listen to us, and people have too much "pride" to admit that they are/were WRONG...and we are all guilty of that in one way or another.

I've pretty much learned NOT to say anything. I will not chatter about the bright future ahead, or the "it's just the same old same old, and always will be" discussions, either. This leaves me with little to talk to people about: the weather, Christmas, how was your day--all the "safe" little banalities that every one of us hides behind, or wishes we could hide behind. So you end up talking about learning new skills so that you can take care of yourself financially in this stupid economy--not because you know you are going to NEED those skills to survive. I mean, I was mentioning the coming economic collapse to an acquaintance the other day--a view that is increasingly reported in the mainstream press, I may add--and she just went on about how futures and pensions and stuff were doing better than ever, so surely nothing like that is going to happen anytime soon! This, with the dollar dropping like a boulder against the euro, and Eurasia and Saudi Arabia seriously discussing using the euro and yuan to buy oil with, not just the not-so-almighty dollar! (And, oh, yeah, don't worry about the draft coming back--it ain't gonna happen! )

I'm not all that sure of what I can do to prepare in my particular situation--how can I tell/warn/advise anyone else? THEY DO NOT WANT TO LISTEN. And when TSHTF, how much are we going to be able to help them through--no matter how much we want to? If all we've got is less than it takes for everyone to share...people, to me, are always thisclose to "rational" barbarity; Germany in the 1930s and 40s is an excellent example of this. For me, this comes to more than just morality; I am a Christian, I both want and am told by my God to love people, to help them. But what if the help dooms us all? Sacrifice myself? OK--but what if my sacrifice STILL isn't going to save them? These are hard, hard questions--I'm only human, though I'm pretty sure I'll do the right thing anyway--but I'm not sure I have the faith that we'd all pull through.

This situation is as close to hell as I ever hope to get....and yet, I know we are all going to get MUCH closer to hell than this, and not too long from now. What to do? I don't know, and I DO know. We are sort of like the prophets of old: no, they won't listen to us; yes, we still have to tell them what's coming. If the scope of all this doesn't keep us humble about the fact that We Know, I don't know what will!

[nero]

I've had that experience, no one wants to listen about this sort of stuff so you just stay quiet and leave people in ignorance. Everybody since the 70s has been taught since grade school that oil is a finite resource, so like the boy who cried wolf no one pays attention anymore if you start talking about resource depletion.

But don't give up on this world just yet even if you are sure TSWHTF soon. the best chance for a positive transition needs everyone to work towards a sustainable future; keep spreading the word just choose your battles. Avoid any mention of "Die Off",instead just introduce Hubbert's peak. I think the concept is close to going mainstream, so it isn't a hard sell.

[Rhinestones]

I want so badly to warn my friends and family about the long (hopefully) decline ahead of us. I hold these thoughts and theories and evidence inside, til they burst out in semi-hysterical rants, shocking the listener into stone faced disbelief. My poor family. I've got to get a better presentation! I'm now concentrating on trying to only ask gentle probing questions about specific topics(the M.E. crusade) that ALL are or will be affected by peak oil. People have to come to an understanding of this dilemma themselves. You can't force it on them.

I have been liquidating some assets, as my resources 'feel' so much more limited now. While the buyers have been very pleased, i feel a bit guilty wondering how they'll feel should the crisis become apparent tomorrow. I've also avoided the topic with my patrons, but realize that I must do what i can to give any person who is open to understanding 'the matrix' they are living in, a chance to wake up.

The people that bug me most are those 50+ boomers who cop out with the response that they only need worry about this for a few more decades. GRRRR

[TrueKaiser]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nero', 'I')'ve had that experience, no one wants to listen about this sort of stuff so you just stay quiet and leave people in ignorance. Everybody since the 70s has been taught since grade school that oil is a finite resource, so like the boy who cried wolf no one pays attention anymore if you start talking about resource depletion.

But don't give up on this world just yet even if you are sure TSWHTF soon. the best chance for a positive transition needs everyone to work towards a sustainable future; keep spreading the word just choose your battles. Avoid any mention of "Die Off",instead just introduce Hubbert's peak. I think the concept is close to going mainstream, so it isn't a hard sell.

[Taskforce_Unity]

Its more useful to give them hints about what you know. Small gaps of data just not you're full view. Tell the half truth. If they are interested they will ask questions. If they want to keep the world view they have now they won't ask questions. That way you can filter the people who have the guts and the brains to find out about the truth apart from the people who will only change when they can't pay their bills anymore.

[Such]

My family is a bunch of engineers... so data talks with them. I went to the local university library and printed the actual journal articles by Campbell, Laherre, Bahktiari, etc. and will give them to my family during Thanksgiving (of all times) to support my viewpoint.

Its hard to argue against this kind of data:

Bakhtiari, Ali M. Samsam. “A Middle East View of The Global Oil Situation.â€

[Sencha]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd will give them to my family during Thanksgiving (of all times) to support my viewpoint.

[cador]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sencha', 'M')y parents are always talking about all the opportunities I'm going to have, and everything I'm going to get to do. I hate that, I don't believe them. I hate their ignorance, that they have no idea. If someone takes the ramifications of peak oil to heart, like myself, the last thing they want to hear about is everything they're going to have.

[nero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'e')ven though food and oil are so intertwinded that a decress in avaliable oil will make food harder to get?

[clv101]

Yes but that 800 million figure will get larger. As oil becomes scarce and expensive the 800 million +1 person is going to go hungry. That's not to say if the oil supply increased today some of those 800 million would get fed, they wouldn't but with reduced supply even more won't get fed.

[J0EW]

Let's face it. No one wants to hear about the price of oil, or its implications on the future. I have tried talking to my wife, my parents, my brothers, and many of my friends about the implications of peak oil. Here are the responses I got:
Wife: I don't like to think about that stuff.
Dad: We live in the U. S., son. If supplies are going to be short, you can bet that our military will make sure we have enough. [Dad, I think that's what our military is trying to do already.]
Mom: You can't really believe all of that negative stuff. They've been saying we'll run out of oil for as long as I can remember, and it hasn't happened yet. [But Mom, it's not about running out, it's about the production peak]. There's no sense worrying about it.
Brothers: Peak what? That's interesting.
Friends: Yeah, we heard about Peak Oil already. We're screwed. Let's talk about something else.

So I don't spend all my days thinking about Peak Oil and what it means for me and my family. But I found myself thinking about it quite a bit yesterday, as I drove to a job interview very close to New York City. There I am, sitting in traffic (and running late for my interview) and there's a Ford Expedition in front of me, a Chevy Suburban on my right, and other SUV's and minivans sprinkled all over this parking lot once called a highway. There I am in my Ford Escort, thinking, These are the people that take the long commute to the city every day? Now I know why! So they can make enough money to buy their huge gas-guzzling vehicles! The idiocy was never more apparent to me than it was yesterday.
Trust me, these people don't want to know about Peak Oil. It will break them. Let us hope instead for a miracle in energy technology that will save all our asses.

[Such]

people have been crying wolf on running out of oil forever... but there are two things we should all remember:

1. As Matthew Simmons says, peaking is as different from running out as catching a cold is from death.

2. We all seem to forget, that at the end of the Little Boy Who Cried Wolf story... the wolf actually shows up!

[Dvanharn]

I know that many of you outside the U.S. don't celebrate Thanksgiving day, but many cultures have their own form of a harvest festival/holiday. However, Thanksgiving in America is a still time when many families get together, bring each other up to date on personal issues, and talk with each other. It is interesting that this thread occurs just as we approach Thanksgiving. I will be going with my partner to the home of one of her friends near Hopland, California, and the group there will all be "progressive" types. I recently accompanied one of the women in the group to a talk by Richard Heinberg at Solfest 2004, an annual event that just happens to be held in Hopland at the Solar Living Center. It will be interesting to hear what she did with the information, and how her husband has reacted to it (although he will not be present).

I work in the solar business, and many of the people who walk into our store/office on Main Street in downtown Sebastopol, CA are environmentally conscious, but most are not aware of the strong likelihood of peak oil within the next couple of years. I speak to them in terms of rising energy costs and shortages, and the need to prepare for major changes in our lifestyles, but do not preach doom and gloom.

On a more personal level, I am nearly 63 years old, and have been acutely aware of impending resource shortages since I was an older (mid-30's) undergraduate student at U.C. Berkeley from 1974-1976. I graduated with a B.S. in Conservation of Natural Resources. I still have many of my books and materials from those days, and then it was even more difficult to convince anyone outside of the environmental community that we were not simply a bunch of crackpot doomsayers. The green revolution and more and more resource discoveries blinded everyone to the inescapable reality of severe future shortages and depletion. I eventually gave up on convincing anyone in the "outside world" of the issues we faced, but continued to support environmental and conservation organizations.

I discovered www.dieoff.org a couple of years ago, and became aware that the future I anticipated was getting closer, and that I would probably see peak oil before I grew old and died. The 9/11 attacks on the U.S., the invasion of Afghanistan, and the rise of the neoconservatives to the rulers of the U.S. gave me an uneasy feeling that a big change in the world was coming within a decade. The invasion of Iraq, and the flood of misrepresentations, half-truths and outright lies that accompanied it convinced me that I was correct, and that human civilization was on the brink of great upheaval and change.

I discovered this website (www.peakoil.com) earlier this year, and you people - my fellow peakers - have become my source of discussion and on-line camaraderie with respect to peak oil and gas, resource depletion in general, and how to deal with it. I still hope to live a long life – at least a couple more decades, and recognize that it probably will not involve world travel, and many of the comforts I had hoped for. Even though we own our home with no mortgage, have two acres and a nice garden, plan to install solar PV next year, live in a progressive “semi-ruralâ€