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Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

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Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 21:48:35

Yes, we backed those poor Shi'ites in Iraq to rebel against Saddam Hussein back in 91. 100,000 of them got murdered as a result. Yes, we backed the South VietNamese before they got slaughtered wholescale by the communists. We Americans meddle in things we don't understand: a world full of cutthroats.
Last edited by PenultimateManStanding on Tue 05 Sep 2006, 21:52:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 21:51:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')e Americans meddle in things we don't understand


You get the "Meddle of Honour" for that one.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 21:55:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')e Americans meddle in things we don't understand


You get the "Meddle of Honour" for that one.
he he! thanks rog. But you are being disingenuous. You sound like you favor the cutthroats.
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby rwwff » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 21:57:47

Is the man who straps the victim into the guillatine the killer? Or the one that slips the rope? Does anything change from the perspective of the restrainer if that rope slipping task becomes automated?

Does the restrainer do his task intentionally?
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 22:02:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'W')e Americans meddle in things we don't understand


You get the "Meddle of Honour" for that one.
he he! thanks rog. But you are being disingenuous. You sound like you favor the cutthroats.


You got the award for identifying part of the problem, not for the US involvement!

Anyway who taught the Indians to scalp?

The Roman's feared the citizens would become flabby and unwarlike with their comforts of the city, hence the circuses were to keep the level of bloodlust up.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 22:06:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I')s the man who straps the victim into the guillatine the killer? Or the one that slips the rope? Does anything change from the perspective of the restrainer if that rope slipping task becomes automated?

Does the restrainer do his task intentionally?
who is the "restrainer"? what are you talking about?
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby rwwff » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 22:09:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I')s the man who straps the victim into the guillatine the killer? Or the one that slips the rope? Does anything change from the perspective of the restrainer if that rope slipping task becomes automated?

Does the restrainer do his task intentionally?
who is the "restrainer"? what are you talking about?


Its an ethics, thought exercise. Do you think people just willingly place their heads into a guillatine?

In the OP this restrainer would the US, we set the stage, put the environment in place that allowed the various mass killings to occur.
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 22:15:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I')s the man who straps the victim into the guillatine the killer? Or the one that slips the rope? Does anything change from the perspective of the restrainer if that rope slipping task becomes automated?

Does the restrainer do his task intentionally?
who is the "restrainer"? what are you talking about?


Its an ethics, thought exercise. Do you think people just willingly place their heads into a guillatine?

In the OP this restrainer would the US, we set the stage, put the environment in place that allowed the various mass killings to occur.
Look, rwwff, I admire your posts. "In the OP, this restrainer would be the US." I haven't got a clue what you are talking about. Maybe you would like to explain this, maybe you wouldn't.
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby rwwff » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 22:22:12

Its just something to think about. Outside the box of where we are supposed to think.

We know, as accepted historical that these killings took place.

We know, in large measure that the conditions that permitted these killings to take place were created by actions of the United States.

So, should the US be considered the killer in these instances?

If so, might one be so vile as to wonder if the killings were the intended result?

I don't know the answer myself, but it occured to me that my assumption that the resultant deaths were unintended, was nothing but a bald assumption.
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 22:27:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I')ts just something to think about. Outside the box of where we are supposed to think.

We know, as accepted historical that these killings took place.

We know, in large measure that the conditions that permitted these killings to take place were created by actions of the United States.

So, should the US be considered the killer in these instances?

If so, might one be so vile as to wonder if the killings were the intended result?

I don't know the answer myself, but it occured to me that my assumption that the resultant deaths were unintended, was nothing but a bald assumption.
Yeah, cool, but "in the restrainer this would be the US" still has me baffled.
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 22:32:19

Look, I don't have a problem with big words. Arcane words, subtle words, I love them all. But I know language, and I know when it is being abused.
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby rogerhb » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 22:38:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')eah, cool, but "in the restrainer this would be the US" still has me baffled.


Imagine Mme Guillotine setup in a town square, are the nobles going to just leap onto the plank or do you think there might be a bit of a struggle and somebody might have the job of restraining them?

So there is this guy who holds the rope attached to the mechanism that holds the blade back, and then there is the restrainer.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby rwwff » Tue 05 Sep 2006, 23:16:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'B')ut I know language, and I know when it is being abused.


I'm having a hard time, with my poor mental abilities, of understanding where the problem lies.

I am suggesting that one visualize the US in the role of the one tieing the nobles down to the plank, and sliding their heads into the guillotine.

Does that clarify the problem?
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby Miki » Wed 06 Sep 2006, 04:29:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'I')s the man who straps the victim into the guillatine the killer? Or the one that slips the rope? Does anything change from the perspective of the restrainer if that rope slipping task becomes automated?

Does the restrainer do his task intentionally?


The restrainer is guilty to the extent that he could refuse to do his job. Unless his life was in danger for doing so (refusing), it is his moral obligation to refuse. Even if his life was in danger, he'd still be guilty (to a certain extent) if he performed the job, albeit his moral responsability would be much lower than if his life was not in danger.

So much for ambiguous ethical scenarios. Let's move on to the US:

1-Your meataphor doesn't apply. The US did not just "stage the set". The US went inside Irak with a goal in mind and all the intention to achieve that goal, whatever "collateral damage" resulted in the process. You and I know that the US started all this because they wanted a regime change in Irak. The removal of Saddam was just a tiny part of the regime change. What they really want is to put a puppet in the Iraki government that will cater to their interests (read OIL and HEGEMONIC agendas in the ME).

The Iraki insurgents and their other terrorist allies are not stupid. They know what this is all about, and they have been resourceful enough to keep the US engaged in Irak for 3 years, and to render all US efforts FUTILE, because we all know that violence in Irak increases by the day, and that the Iraki "government"/US army have no control over them whatsoever.

2-PMS: The US stayed in both Irak and Vietnam for too long. Saddam was gone 3 years ago. We can understand an initial mistake, but 3 years of mistakes that involve thousands of innocent civilians killed is way too much. At this point, the only morally right outcome would be for Bush to sit alongside Saddam in trial.

The WORLD has been telling the US to stop the slaughter and come back home. Since the US invaded Irak, the incidence of terrorism has increased both in Irak and in the world. Your president is an extremist rigid arrogant individual who just can't accept failure and go home. On top of that, he plans to replicate his mistakes in Afghanistan, Irak and Lebanon, in Iran and Syria. How many more people have to die before America is held accountable for its "mistakes" (aka, war crimes)?
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Wed 06 Sep 2006, 09:25:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')es, we backed those poor Shi'ites in Iraq to rebel against Saddam Hussein back in 91. 100,000 of them got murdered as a result. Yes, we backed the South VietNamese before they got slaughtered wholescale by the communists. We Americans meddle in things we don't understand: a world full of cutthroats.


PMS...this is really disengenous. The US never backed the Shi'ite rebelion in 91 at all. It told them to rebel, implied that it would help them, and didn't. That's why they all got slaughtered.

As for the South Vietnamese, there were many fold more South Vietnamese butchered by the US, and by the US backed Siagon governments than by the North Vietnamese. That's why virtually the entire country ended up supporting Ho Chi Minh.
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Now is nothing more than a memory
The way things were before
I lost my way" - OCMS
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Re: Alright, Americans Don't Understand The World

Unread postby qwerty » Wed 06 Sep 2006, 10:32:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '
')
We know, in large measure that the conditions that permitted these killings to take place were created by actions of the United States.

So, should the US be considered the killer in these instances?

If so, might one be so vile as to wonder if the killings were the intended result?

I don't know the answer myself, but it occured to me that my assumption that the resultant deaths were unintended, was nothing but a bald assumption.


Bad assumption? Where is your logic and reasoning gone to Rwwff?

So the US should NOT be considered the killers of the native americans? The US should NOT be considered the practicers of biologicial weapons by PRETENDING TO GIVE AID (see the pattern, it applies even to TODAY!!!) to the natives when in reality it was full of smallpox and other deadly diseases that wiped them OUT!

Too bad the Natives didn't think of that trick sooner and planted some anthrax in the THANKSGIVING corns.

The US should NOT be considered the killers? Why? Becuase the US supports the terrorists nation of is-fake that has slaughtered the palistinians for over a half century?????????

The US should NOT be considered killers because the CIA is the worlds greatest drug dealer and directly screws the familys of millions of people worldwide and hundreds of nations financially?

The US should NOT be considered the killers because they killed their OWN on 911, Pearl Harbor, JFK....

Right Rwwff, it makes SO MUCH SENSE what you say.
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