[Miki]

Over 120 American Coalitions & Organizations Sign Open Letter to the Middle East. Groups protest indiscriminate attacks on civilians, Israel's actions, US policy. I can't tell you how happy I was to receive this letter in my mailbox. It gives me hope as I realize that there are many decent Americans and Jews who share my values, perspective, and goals.
Here is the press advisory, the letter, and the signing organizations:
[web]http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=1255[/web]

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', ' ')It gives me hope as I realize that there are many decent Americans and Jews who share my values, perspective, and goals.

[venky]

Have to agree with Jack. There are an insignificant minority in the American political discourse; unfortunately ofcourse.

[threadbear]

I think, Miki, a good 50 % and perhaps more Americans would agree with this.

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'I') think, Miki, a good 50 % and perhaps more Americans would agree with this.

[PenultimateManStanding]

I would guess that most Americans think along these lines: Israel was invaded many times by Arab countries. They won the wars and have every right to keep what they took by force of arms in defensive wars. Giving land for peace doesn't work because the real agenda is the destruction of Israel, not East Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank. Miki has indicated that the reason for insisting on the right of return for descendants of the Palestinians who lost out in 1948 (of which I agree that I need to know more about - for reasons of historical perspective) is so these people can vote the country out of exisitence or something like that. This, and the beastly insistence on violence for nearly 60 years, the suicide bombers who target folks sitting in restaraunts, and the mind-numbing futility of all this violence probably has most Americans quite thoroughly turned-off to the whole Palestinian cause. Their only hope is to win hearts and minds, and they sure aren't doing it here. And if you think it is some kind of "media indoctrination" - get real, the American "media" is fractured, with quite diverse opinions.

[venky]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I') would guess that most Americans think along these lines: Israel was invaded many times by Arab countries. They won the wars and have every right to keep what they took by force of arms in defensive wars. Giving land for peace doesn't work because the real agenda is the destruction of Israel, not East Jerusalem, Gaza and the West Bank. Miki has indicated that the reason for insisting on the right of return for descendants of the Palestinians who lost out in 1948 (of which I agree that I need to know more about - for reasons of historical perspective) is so these people can vote the country out of exisitence or something like that. This, and the beastly insistence on violence for nearly 60 years, the suicide bombers who target folks sitting in restaraunts, and the mind-numbing futility of all this violence probably has most Americans quite thoroughly turned-off to the whole Palestinian cause. Their only hope is to win hearts and minds, and they sure aren't doing it here. And if you think it is some kind of "media indoctrination" - get real, the American "media" is fractured, with quite diverse opinions.

[Eli]

Venky is right. In the US there is undo influence and support for Israel by both parties. I think if you asked the average democrat on the street they would support this letter whole heartily. Now, on the other hand if you asked the average Democratic Senator or Congressmen they would just give you a lot of lip service. They know who writes the checks for their reelection campaign.

In the US open criticism of Israel is now verboten by both parties and it is thanks to the Necons that we are now in Iraq and they are the ones who are really up in arms about Iran. Actually if you are open to reading all kinds of info Pat Buchanan has done some great articles about how the US blindly favors Israel to our own detriment. In the US any criticism of Israeli policies are often derided as anti-semitic.

But Pen you bring up some good points, the problem Israel is facing is not that her neighbors want a return to the 1967 boarders but that they want to see her total destruction. The right of return of Palestinian descendants who were displaced during the war is just a clever way to destroy the nation of Israel.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', 'I') agree with you that most Americans probably do think along these lines. However, what you have posted is only one side of the story; it totally ignores the suffering of the Palestinians, the quite frequent attacks by the Israeli's in the occupied territories which has killed far more Palestinian civilians than Israelis through terrorism, the systematic cold blooded way that Israel has destroyed the Palestinian economy and daily impedes the Palestinians in the West Bank from living out their livelihoods and economic activities through series of road blocks and checkpoints and movements across the tightly controlled border.

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I') would guess that most Americans think along these lines: Israel was invaded many times by Arab countries. They won the wars and have every right to keep what they took by force of arms in defensive wars.

[smiley]

I know this post is going to be very generalizing, but looking as an outsider at the US, and what shapes the opinion in the US I see the following three factors. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I hope I am.

1) Cultural ignorance
Speaking to Americans (not the people on this forum of course ) I get the strong impression that a large part of the country is completely ignorant about the rest of the world. And that goes for the lower class, middle class as well as those who call themselves intellectuals. And that those who do have that knowledge have obtained it through their own efforts, not by virtue of the educational system.
If you want to understand the Middle East you have to dig into its history, all the way down to biblical times. You have to understand geography, the cultures and the religions.

2) A strong desire to see everything black and white
Americans like to see the world in a framework consisting of good and bad. It is a recurrent theme in movies, news, and politics. The good guy versus the bad guy, the allegiance of justice and democracy versus the axis of evil. In a conflict, someone must be good, and consequently someone must be evil.
In the Middle East there is no black and white, just a whole lot different shades of gray.

3) A biased media.
In contrast to the previous post I don't think the US media is unbiased. I admit that I only get the major channels here CNN, Fox NBC and not the smaller channels, but comparing them to other media, like BBC, SKY, TV5, ZDF they do have a bias. And that bias is not exactly in favor of non-western nations.
So you have a lot of people which are extremely opinionated on a subject, without having the necessary background information to aid that decision, and with a biased media system as only input.

[Miki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'I') know this post is going to be very generalizing, but looking as an outsider at the US, and what shapes the opinion in the US I see the following three factors.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I hope I am.

So you have a lot of people which are extremely opinionated on a subject, without having the necessary background information to aid that decision, and with a biased media system as only input.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', ' ')why do they continue to steal land (75% of the West bank since the 70s)? Where in the American media do they talk about this stealing? Where do they talk about the illegal settlers that the state of Israel keeps sending to Palestinian towns?

[nwildmand]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', ' ')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat is also why Israel wants to collect all the Jews in the world and move them to Israel. In fact, that is how the Jews stole Palestine to start with: they just ethnic cleansed the area by slaughtering tons of Palestinians and terrorizing the rest so they wuld leave Palestine.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', 'd')ont forget the 1920 palestine riots pms. i cant seem to find a source that states the jews started the violence first.

[nwildmand]

of course it doesnt roger. it seem g.b. really played the fence on this one. the british were really anti semitec at the time.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', '[')
dont forget the 1920 palestine riots pms.

[Gigashadow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', '[')
dont forget the 1920 palestine riots pms.

[nwildmand]

this is also an interesting read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exo ... Arab_lands

seems that arabs have been implementing porams and genocide against jews for 1000 years. they just quit puttin up with the shit in the last century.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gigashadow', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nwildmand', '[')
dont forget the 1920 palestine riots pms.