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THE Jimmy Carter Thread (merged)

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Re: Jimmy Carter's Televised Energy Speech. April 18, 1977

Unread postby dooberheim » Sun 05 Mar 2006, 07:02:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DomusAlbion', 'I')t was his bungling of the Iran hostage crisis that cost him the job of president; that and a poor economic showing throughout his first term

I remember the reason him not being re-elected was more the handling of the hostage crisis - energy was not something Americans thought much about in 1980 other than being able to fill up their tanks.
Remember Carter sent a team of helicopters into Iran to try to free the hostages. All of them crashed in the desert. I think people saw that as evidence the US was getting too wimpy militarily, and voted for someone they perceived would do something about that.
Inelligence often does not make for the perception of strength in a leader. Reagan had that "shoot from the hip" style that a lot of people felt was more decisive, even if he didn't really think too much about the issues he was talking about.
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Unread postby Starvid » Sun 05 Mar 2006, 09:11:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BabyPeanut', 'A')dding insult to injury

Insult? Undeserved honor I call it.
Sure Carter had a glorious energy policy but his incredibly incompetent handling of the hostage crisis led to the biggest humilitation of the West in general and the US in particular since, I don't know since.
Since the Battle of the Horns of Hattin?
Anyways, it was Carter's cowardice, military incompetence and peacenikness that brought him down. If he had been tougher on the Mullahs he would have been reelected and we would all have been better off for it.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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Question about President Carter

Unread postby InformedEJ » Mon 20 Mar 2006, 17:53:59

I know this will get moved but i wanted maximum exposure to get the best results. I want a link to the speaches President Carter didn't give about the oil problem of the future (i.e. Peak Oil). I have the one he gave at the state of the union, i need the two he didn't speak to an audiance about. Thanks all..
Last edited by Ferretlover on Mon 08 Aug 2011, 12:03:38, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged thread.
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Re: Question about President Carter

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 20 Mar 2006, 19:48:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('InformedEJ', '.')..I want a link to the speaches President Carter didn't give about the oil problem of the future (i.e. Peak Oil). I have the one he gave at the state of the union, i need the two he didn't speak to an audiance about.


Well, it's only a "speech" if there's an audience, so some clarification is in order. Are you referring to published essays or white papers or something?

Ya gotta "speak" for it to be a "speech".

(I assume you've already Googled the hell out of this, right?)
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Re: Question about President Carter

Unread postby InformedEJ » Mon 20 Mar 2006, 20:03:41

Yes let me clarify, under the influence of a lot of allergy medicine. I am aware of i believe 2 "written" papers on the oil crisis that were suppose to be speaches, but were never given. Yes, I googled the hell out of this with no results. I was hoping that someone had it in their files. <<<---continues to look...
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Re: Question about President Carter

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 20 Mar 2006, 21:14:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('InformedEJ', 'Y')es let me clarify, under the influence of a lot of allergy medicine. I am aware of i believe 2 "written" papers on the oil crisis that were suppose to be speaches, but were never given. Yes, I googled the hell out of this with no results. I was hoping that someone had it in their files. <<<---continues to look...


If Carter wrote it the person to ask is the librarian/curator of the J. Carter Presidential Library. Carter Library

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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Carter

Unread postby Miki » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 08:05:59

Jimmy Carter may have his flaws but he's way more decent than Bush and way smarter too. He knew how to negotiate and he did not resort to preemptive wars before even trying to find peaceful solutions. He had a respect for other cultures. Actions speak louder than words, and he's way better Christian than the bastard warmonger of Bush will ever be.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]I think that at this moment the United States and Israel probably stand more alone than our country has in generations.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Carter:This administration has not attempted at all in the last six years to negotiate or attempt to negotiate a settlement between Israel and any of its neighbors or the Palestinians.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Carter: No, as a matter of fact, the concerns I exposed have gotten even worse now with the United States supporting and encouraging Israel in its unjustified attack on Lebanon.
SPIEGEL: But wasn't Israel the first to get attacked?
Carter:I don't think that Israel has any legal or moral justification for their massive bombing of the entire nation of Lebanon. What happened is that Israel is holding almost 10,000 prisoners, so when the militants in Lebanon or in Gaza take one or two soldiers, Israel looks upon this as a justification for an attack on the civilian population of Lebanon and Gaza. I do not think that's justified, no.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]SPIEGEL: One main points of your book is the rather strange coalition between Christian fundamentalists and the Republican Party. How can such a coalition of the pious lead to moral catastrophes like the Iraqi prison scandal in Abu Ghraib and torture in Guantanamo?

Carter: The fundamentalists believe they have a unique relationship with God, and that they and their ideas are God's ideas and God's premises on the particular issue. Therefore, by definition since they are speaking for God anyone who disagrees with them is inherently wrong. And the next step is: Those who disagree with them are inherently inferior, and in extreme cases -- as is the case with some fundamentalists around the world -- it makes your opponents sub-humans, so that their lives are not significant. Another thing is that a fundamentalist can't bring himself or herself to negotiate with people who disagree with them because the negotiating process itself is an indication of implied equality. And so this administration, for instance, has a policy of just refusing to talk to someone who is in strong disagreement with them -- which is also a radical departure from past history. So these are the kinds of things that cause me concern. And, of course, fundamentalists don't believe they can make mistakes, so when we permit the torture of prisoners in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib, it's just impossible for a fundamentalist to admit that a mistake was made.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Carter: Unfortunately, after Sept. 11, there was an outburst in America of intense suffering and patriotism, and the Bush administration was very shrewd and effective in painting anyone who disagreed with the policies as unpatriotic or even traitorous. For three years, I'd say, the major news media in our country were complicit in this subservience to the Bush administration out of fear that they would be accused of being disloyal.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Jack » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 09:16:23

Ah, yes. Jimmy Carter. :roll:
The man who had to defend himself from an attack rabbit, and did the job badly. The president who sent Special Forces into Iran, saw a complete mess evolve, and looked absurd. The hapless leader who punished Iran's takeover of the American embassy by not lighting the national Christmas tree. :roll:
George is, arguably, several fajitas short of a taco; that said, Carter was not an effective president. Given the choice between the two, I suppose I'd have to choose Bush again.
Carter. The Georgia peanut farmer that aspires to be Mother Theresa.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby UncoveringTruths » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 09:41:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'A')h, yes. Jimmy Carter. :roll:
The man who had to defend himself from an attack rabbit, and did the job badly. The president who sent Special Forces into Iran, saw a complete mess evolve, and looked absurd. ...
Carter. The Georgia peanut farmer that aspires to be Mother Theresa.

And the lone voice that warned us about Peak Oil 30 years ago.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby erl » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 11:27:11

...and couldn't get re-elected...
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby seahorse2 » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:06:20

No one listened to Carter about oil, but oil in general, is not a popular subject. Americans don't want to talk about it. No one likes to talk about addictions. Consumerism, credit, addictions.
Now, as for comparing presidents and debacles, here's my take:
As Jack points out, Carter blew the Iranian rescue mission. But, Reagan got 300 Marines killed in Beirut and didn't do a thing about it politically or militarily - he cut and ran too. Instead, he found victory in Grenada. Wow. So, Carter accomplished nothing in Iran. Reagan accomplished nothing in Lebanon or Grenada. So, how to score the two? If you go by number of Americans killed, Reagan wins, but I'm not sure if that good or bad. In the end, it was all for naught, no political or strategic objectives were attained.

Bush Senior, hmm, he did okay running Sadam out of Kuwait, but, militarily, made arguably made a serious military/strategic mistake by not taking Sadam out while we still had the political support and people backing us. His military blunder? People forget it was Bush Senior that got us into Somalia. Remember the press following the Marines onto the Somalia beaches? That was Bush that sent in the Marines with all that press coverage on the beaches. He sent the Marines and military in there with no exit strategy, no strategy or purpose at all really.
Interesting, even though Bush had no exit strategy when he started the war, its Clinton that gets blamed for not getting Aidid and not having an exit strategy for a war that Bush initiated- I take exception to that though, Clinton did say, pack your bags boys we're leaving, which is as simple and effective exit strategy as any. Keep in mind that the Somalia Bush senior invaded is now under the control of the Islamic "terrorists." So, its just another military action started by a Republican President that accomplished nothing but putting our enemies in charge and got a lot of good military people killed in the process. It appears the failed Bush senior Somalia policy will be repeated by his son in Iraq.

Clinton did successfully win the war against the Serbs and stopped the Serbian genocide, which was a lot more difficult than Reagan winning Grenada and probably just as difficult as beating the third ranked Iraqis in the first Gulf War.
Junior Bush, what can I say. Is anything going right? Afghanistan? Iraq? Iran? North Korea? Lebanon? Venezuela? Its all just peaches.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:23:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'G')eorge is, arguably, several fajitas short of a taco; that said, Carter was not an effective president. Given the choice between the two, I suppose I'd have to choose Bush again.
Carter. The Georgia peanut farmer that aspires to be Mother Theresa.

As Seahorse correctly pointed out, all presidents have done some serious mistakes, but Bush Jr has done way too many for someone with an average IQ, assuming he has one.
Moreover, his mistakes have spilled all over the world, gaining America a level of disrespect and isolation that it never had before.
He's the first American president that has been regarded as a dumbass and a fundamentalist religious extremist by most of the world.
I'm not surprised you prefer Bush though. I can see some commonalities between you two.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Zardoz » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:28:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')George is, arguably, several fajitas short of a taco; that said, Carter was not an effective president. Given the choice between the two, I suppose I'd have to choose Bush again...

Please explain why you feel Dubya is "effective".
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Miki » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:30:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('erl', '.')..and couldn't get re-elected...

Well, that's the price you have to pay when you're not willing to invent lies like the "war on terror" and use scare tactics in exchange of votes.
I'm sure the American public will look back one day at the 10 Bush years with regret and contempt. It's just taking them some time to realize what most of the world already knows. As Carter rightly pointed out, this change has been slowed by the fascist policies that frighten the media and bully every authority to prevent their opposition to the official policies. Anything that contradicts Mr. Bush is considered treason in the US today. And the bastard has the guts to accuse Muslims of being fascists. Ha!
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:33:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seahorse2', 'J')unior Bush, what can I say. Is anything going right? Afghanistan? Iraq? Iran? North Korea? Lebanon? Venezuela? Its all just peaches.

I guess it depends on what you think the administration's true goals are, and what you consider a victory.
Afghanistan: If Enron had not imploded, the Dahbol gas-fired electicity generating station might have gone online. If that had happened, there would be a trans-afghan NG pipeline in place already. But despite that setback, no opportunity can go unexploited. Now, Afghanistan's heroin production exceeds pre-invasion levels. And we all know how much the CIA likes to deal drugs...
Iraq: Iraq isn't trading it's oil in euros, and it's not being shipped to China. Right now, one of the largest proven reserves in the world is sitting underneath 14 armored divisions and 3 carrier groups. No, the oil isn't flowing into American gas tanks as fast as some might like it, but it's not flowing into Chinese gas tanks either, and won't be for the forseeable future.

Iran: Yeah, this is a train wreck waiting to happen. I can't see a way for the states to achieve it's goals here. Apparently, neither can they, or else they would have moved by now.
North Korea: Really, what's the worst they can do to America? North Korea has been pushed to the back burner for a reason.
Lebanon: I don't think it's as much of a loss as it might appear. Look at the situation. The UN is mobilizing ground forces into Lebanon as we speak. When the US attacks Iran, (notice I said when, not if) Hezbollah will have to go through the UN to strike at Israel, risking whatever political capital they have in Europe and making enemies of the Lebanese army.

Venezuela: This is probably the darkest spot in the entire mess, other than Iran. America is overextended. At this point, unless something drastic changes, South America is basically a write-off.
Don't get me wrong, nothing has gone according to plan. But in every instance thus far (Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon), America has managed to come away from the table with *something* of value.
The question is, how long can this incredible good fortune hold out?
considering the next target seems to be Iran, I'm guessing not very long.
The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Kez » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:45:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('UncoveringTruths', 'A')nd the lone voice that warned us about Peak Oil 30 years ago.

So what? You're the single most powerful human being on the planet, and you start, and end, with words. That is complete and total failure in my book. Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, T. Roosevelt started with words and ended up kicking ass to get people moving. Kennedy demanded that we get to the moon before the end of the decade (60's), and EVERYONE thought he was friggin nuts. Reagan made efforts to make peace with Russia. But they didn't just yap about it, they got a conserted effort going and kicked some heads around until they got it done.
I'm so sick of hearing about visionaries who do nothing, and especially him because he could have changed the entire planet if he wanted to actually stir up some trouble, but nope, just talk. If you read the presidential speeches from Washington to Lincoln, they ALL mention the evils and problems of slavery and states rights, they curse King George for starting slavery in the first place, but nobody did crap until Lincoln.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby highlander » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:54:08

Before you get all misty eyed over ol Jimmy, you might google "Carter Doctrine" and see where that has led.
This is where everybody puts profound words written by another...or not so profound words written by themselves
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Jack » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 13:58:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'G')eorge is, arguably, several fajitas short of a taco; that said, Carter was not an effective president. Given the choice between the two, I suppose I'd have to choose Bush again...

Please explain why you feel Dubya is "effective".

He has gotten his programs and agendas through. One may dispute the wisdom of his actions, one may believe it would be better if he hadn't implemented his programs and agendas - but he has put them into place.
So, yes, he has been effective in a way. I didn't say wise.
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:03:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'G')eorge is, arguably, several fajitas short of a taco; that said, Carter was not an effective president. Given the choice between the two, I suppose I'd have to choose Bush again...

Please explain why you feel Dubya is "effective".

He has gotten his programs and agendas through. One may dispute the wisdom of his actions, one may believe it would be better if he hadn't implemented his programs and agendas - but he has put them into place.
So, yes, he has been effective in a way. I didn't say wise.

It's amazing what a complicit, lapdog Congress can do towards advancing a president's agenda... :twisted:
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Re: The US & Israel Stand Alone: Interview with Jimmy Ca

Unread postby Jack » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 14:09:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'I')'m not surprised you prefer Bush though. I can see some commonalities between you two.

Why, thank you, Miki. Yes, I think he and I have equivalent levels of compassion for the poor and downtrodden. I'm sure that I'm as ethical as he. And, if I had the opportunity, I'd do as much for humanity and the world as he has. Truly. :twisted:
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