[abelardlindsay]

What the heck is going on with all this crazy new tech coming out?

http://hytechapps.com/

Supposedly, these guys have built a method for producing a new type of welding mechanism based on new configurations of hydrogen and oxygen. What's cool about this site is you can actually buy or lease the machine to make the stuff. The tech demo of this stuff is totally f'in wild. What it can cut through is amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rb_rDkw ... ed&search=

More peak oil related, supposedly, the thing can produce an additive from water that improves vehicle fuel efficiency 20 to 30%. Though that part is very very hard to believe....

[abelardlindsay]

The Patent


And the Journal Paper

Probably just another flash in the pan...

[BrownDog]

There isn't much info (surprise!), but it would appear that 'hydrogen embrittlement' would be a problem if you actually tried to weld with this. It might work for cutting, but I doubt the EROEI is worthwhile. I'm guessing my plasma cutter is more efficent for cutting, and at about as fast.

[EndOfSewers]

Looks like the same Brown's gas/HHO bullshit that's been flamed to death here many times.

[ChumpusRex2]

Yeah, this same thing gets "invented" again and again.

Oxy-hydrogen torches do have their uses e.g. in jewellery work (silver soldering) but that's about it.

The hydrogen flame has lower temperature than an acetylene flame so is much slower at cutting and welding. The hydrogen is also a serious problem for welding as it causes the weld to become extremely brittle.

The equipment is very expensive, and has limited portability (by comparison a MIG arc welder is a fraction of the size and cost, and will produce much better quality welds in steel) - for cutting oxy-acetylene equipment is much lighter and cheaper.

Of course, if it's cutting speed you want a plasma cutter will beat out any torch - and at a fraction of the cost of this hydrogen machine.

[BlisteredWhippet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course, if it's cutting speed you want a plasma cutter will beat out any torch - and at a fraction of the cost of this hydrogen machine.

[ChumpusRex2]

I'm not so convinced of the safety argument.

The flame is virtually invisible, whereas an oxyacetylene flame is bright, and a plasma beam extremely bright.

You still need eye protection to protect against the bright glow of the metal being cut/welded and against the infra red light. You get less UV light than arc welding or plasma - but the UV isn't a major consideration with oxy acetylene torches.

Hydrogen is explosive under a wider range of conditions than acetylene - any mixture from 10-90% hydrogen is potentially explosive, wheras you need to get the mixture nearly right to cause nat gas or acetylene to explode. Additionally, the gas generator contains the optimum explosive mixture throughout its entire structure - whereas with torch welding the gases are only mixed at the torch tip.

Due to the low heat content of the flame, cutting/welding conductive metals like copper or aluminium is likely to take much longer than with an alternative method - so exposing the user to risks for a longer period of time. Some traditional oxy-hydrogen torches spray a little liquid fuel (e.g. acetone or meths) into the flame to try and get a bit more heat out of it.

I will concede the point that there is no CO2 or CO produced from this torch - but an oxy-actylene torch produces virtually no CO when operating in cutting mode - and even modest ventilation would be sufficient ro prevent any harm from this. (A plasma cutter/welder produces no CO2 or CO).

Additionally,

Welding gas is cheap, especially if bought in bulk - electricity is expensive. Running costs are likely to be significantly higher with this device - that's not even counting the potential reduction in productivity.

There's nothing particularly new about hydrogen torches - they've been used for decades. In fact, during WWII they were used more frequently than oxy-acetylene (because coal for acetylene production was saved for the war effort). The problem is that they are, for most circumstances, inferior - which is why we don't see much of them today.

[BlisteredWhippet]

Ahh but this is NEW tech.

The HHO gas is "Magnecular", dude. Something about a Magnetically-aligned valence to the electrons or some crap. Whatever. According to the patent it is stable vs. conventional hydrogen gas fuels. Its novelty is that it only reacts with heat & light in certain applications... fuel use or metalwork.

Its hard to say to what degree this HHO stuff improves on other designs in terms of safety. But if you can fire it up without UV eye shielding and it doesn't burn your finger off with direct contact its already a couple steps ahead.