[Garrelic]

What are you clinging to? This society sucks, look around you? The majority of you are fat, economic Elites hold all the cards, a monopower is causing micro-wars on a yearly basis, and the public cares more about the season finale of 'Friends' then the reasons why the Superpower invaded a third world country for reasons later to be determined false. Whether the crash is soft or hard, its inavoidable, and the benefits such as no longer killing the planet, and losing a majority of mentally and physically weak human beings is really a fair trade off for this society's behaviour.
You would prefer this eventless existence which squanders your potential? Making you into a peon who's primary interest is to be rewarded by making somone else money? Going home to be seated in front of an image box forgetting your problems and what a futile role you fill? Damn, am i gonna miss hummers, McDonold's, and billions of racially separated dirty people.


Nuclear war? pfft, won't kill us all, we will start over with a hard lesson learned. Pocket survival will be the worst case scenario, with a 2 in 6 billion possibility of extinction...
(In that event New Zealand will be the new cradle of civilization)

Its not a sustainable society, even with the absence of 'peak oil', get over it, get a garden, and move on.

But tell me if I'm wrong, how and why... etc. I realize some buttons probably were pressed, sorry but lamenting this transition isn't worth it.

[Booger]

I think you're wrong on Americans being dirty, in my experience, they are the physically cleanest nationality, maybe second to Canadians. Europeans might have clean cities, but personally they are just filthy. That includes Brits too. You've got to shower every day, really.

Otherwise I think you're spot on.

[Colorado-Valley]

I've always seen peak energy in an optimistic light because, to tell you the truth, I've always been more concerned about climate change and the current wholesale destruction of the environment.

Six and a half billion people is a tough number for the planet to support.

[Garrelic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Booger', 'I') think you're wrong on Americans being dirty, in my experience, they are the physically cleanest nationality, maybe second to Canadians. Europeans might have clean cities, but personally they are just filthy. That includes Brits too. You've got to shower every day, really.

Otherwise I think you're spot on.

[Dvanharn]

Any post you make here is by default, addressed to people who are visiting this forum. Most people here are concerned about peak oil, and many of us here are are trying to lessen our footprint on the earth, reduce our use of energy, and educate others about these issues.

Yet you address us as if you are an outsider coming to condemn us for being the cause of all of Earth's problems, implying that the people who are not concerned about peak oil and energy depletion are the innocents. I think your logic is a bit scrambled.

Perhaps specifying a target group, or at least a third party pronoun would better serve the objective of your post.

Dave

[Garrelic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dvanharn', 'A')ny post you make here is by default, addressed to people who are visiting this forum. Most people here are concerned about peak oil, and many of us here are are trying to lessen our footprint on the earth, reduce our use of energy, and educate others about these issues.

Yet you address us as if you are an outsider coming to condemn us for being the cause of all of Earth's problems, implying that the people who are not concerned about peak oil and energy depletion are the innocents. I think your logic is a bit scrambled.

Perhaps specifying a target group, or at least a third party pronoun would better serve the objective of your post.

Dave

[Garrelic]

Yet you address us as if you are an outsider coming to condemn us for being the cause of all of Earth's problems

How about you quote me rather than make shit up?

[Garrelic]

I would have thought an "insider" such as yourself would be able to get the subject, which was "about worrying" and "wishing it would go away"


"sorry but lamenting this transition isn't worth it."

everyone else got the point?

[frankthetank]

You make a very good point. Its funny how similiar a lot of us think. Especially considering in my day to day life, everyone is/acts like your avg. American.

I do agree with climate change being a wildcard. Sooner or later another ice age is going to make its presence. Science has shown that it doesn't take long for the switch to be made. Could you imagine a summer freeze in the grain belt? in China? in India?

[Dvanharn]

Please read your original post.

You used the pronoun "you" which identifies your target as those of us who might read your post.

Then you proceed to attack that group (peakoil.com members such as me, and our visitors) with mostly false accusations. I simply defended myself and many fellow peakers and those concerned about what we are doing to the planet. (I am not a fat slob, and I don't watch television, and I work in solar energy and conservation.)

What is the point of attacking those who are trying to do something about the mess that "civilization" is creating?

Perhaps you could enlighten us with some information about what group you really meant to attack.

You write and respond as if your message was clear, when it was in reality quite unfocussed. That is very common with people in the early stages of comprehending the drastic changes coming in the near future. I hope that you will come around and join those who are working to foster a better, more localized and energy efficient future. Just because one believes in a hard landing does not mean the future is hopeless for everyone.

Trying to do something positive is far more fulfilling than wallowing in self pity.

Dave

[Garrelic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dvanharn', 'P')lease read your original post.

You used the pronoun "you" which identifies your target as those of us who might read your post.

Then you proceed to attack that group (peakoil.com members such as me, and our visitors) with mostly false accusations. I simply defended myself and many fellow peakers and those concerned about what we are doing to the planet. (I am not a fat slob, and I don't watch television, and I work in solar energy and conservation.)

What is the point of attacking those who are trying to do something about the mess that "civilization" is creating?

Perhaps you could enlighten us with some information about what group you really meant to attack.

You write and respond as if your message was clear, when it was in reality quite unfocussed. That is very common with people in the early stages of comprehending the drastic changes coming in the near future. I hope that you will come around and join those who are working to foster a better, more localized and energy efficient future. Just because one believes in a hard landing does not mean the future is hopeless for everyone.

Trying to do something positive is far more fulfilling than wallowing in self pity.

Dave

[Garrelic]

You say the first post is an unprovoked personal attack, When in reality the 11th post is a provoked personal attack.

[Dvanharn]

That's probably why you're babbling incoherently and with no discernable goal. You will either:

1) Come around, and we'll welcome your help in facing the future

2) Continue ranting until everyone ignores you

3) Fade away into a psychotic state, and it won't matter anyway.

Dave

(Actually, some of your other posts have been reasonably coherent, so I'll assume that you have potential for good.)

[Garrelic]

"Dvanharn"]That's probably why you're babbling incoherently and with no discernable goal. You will either:" (why am i not suprised you didnt understand it?)

Goal: To maintain my innocents that I didn't directly insult anyone on this forum, which you have yet to prove but assume it to be true...

1) Come around, and we'll welcome your help in facing the future

I was doing that with the remarks concerning the futile nature of this depression when what is being lost isn't worth very much.

2) Continue ranting until everyone ignores you

-continue lying or not admitting that you misunderstood the thread? but everyone else did.

3) Fade away into a psychotic state, and it won't matter anyway.

Well, I coherently understand the meaning of these words you are typing and don't feel any paranoia of being insulted by things that aren't there, Just frustration when people making allegations without providing evidence. (is it that hard? just, copy....... then paste?)


(Actually, some of your other posts have been reasonably coherent, so I'll assume that you have potential for good.)

It would have been a much longer wait for my post if I had encorperated your fallacy into an essay format, suprise suprise, you

So you want to change the subject dave???

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Garrelic', 'W')hy be so pessimistic

[Dvanharn]

Go ahead and pick a new subject - but keep it related to peak oil - change is good therapy. You seems to be calming down. That's a good sign!

I got past my depression about the future with limited resources whan I was a student in Conservation of Natural Resources at UC Berkeley in the mid 1970's. I was surrounded by students and teachers who had a strong desire to make things better. Those of us who recognized the ultimate failings in the system at that time, then saw the Green Revolution (mostly based on gas & oil products) and a big bump in oil production bury our vision in a renewed orgy of waste. You are part of the next generation (assuming you are fairly young) that is seeing the magnatude of the problems we face, but this time we are much closer to the edge of the cliff.

I know what I will and must do to try do deal with energy and economic changes over the next few years. However, the winds of fate are fickle, and I am sure that my plan will have to be modified as things evolve.

It is the grandchildren that I worry about. Son-in-law drives a big SUV - and drives a lot. They are die-hard super-conservative Bush fans who are convinced that America is headed to even greater glory and prosperity, and suggested that we mortgage our home heavily with an interest-only, adjustable rate loan and use the cash to live the good life - and do that again in 5 years. Instead we chose to pay off our mortgage, live frugally and grow some of our own food. I could not look a 3-year old grandchild in the eye, knowing that her future is not going to be what her parents expect, if I lived the same extravagent life. I wouldn't be surprised if someday within the next decade thay all end up moving in with us (if not them, then other friends).

In my opinion, life is not worth living when you know that disaster is coming unless you try to prepare for it and help others do the same. I have more of a sense of purpose in my life than ever before, although I am well aware that what we are facing won't be easy. As others have also said here, I relish many simple things in life now that I used to, and others still do, take for granted. I look at the stars, listen to the birds, and watch the sunset, and savor the companionship of family and firends whenever I can.

Sorry for getting on your case earlier, but you were rather provocative. I should have responded to your intention, which was not clearly stated, rather than taking you to task for your specific choice of phrasing.

Dave

[Garrelic]

Have you ever read the book, 'Jihad vs McWorld' ? Its a well thought out series of essays comparing tribalism and corperate globalization, and how before sept 11th it appeard McWorld would win. Well, now it seems Jihad will win, but not because of Jihads actions or strategy, just luck.

[Booger]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Garrelic', 'H')ave you ever read the book, 'Jihad vs McWorld' ? Its a well thought out series of essays comparing tribalism and corperate globalization, and how before sept 11th it appeard McWorld would win. Well, now it seems Jihad will win, but not because of Jihads actions or strategy, just luck.

[Garrelic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Booger', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Garrelic', 'H')ave you ever read the book, 'Jihad vs McWorld' ? Its a well thought out series of essays comparing tribalism and corperate globalization, and how before sept 11th it appeard McWorld would win. Well, now it seems Jihad will win, but not because of Jihads actions or strategy, just luck.

[Madpaddy]

Garrelic,

While I like the sentiments expressed in your first post I was upset to have my hygiene (as a European) criticised. I make the point of showering once a year whether I need to or not.

Seriously though, do you think that the 4 billion who need to die before the rest of us can get on with things will just lie down and decompose. Personally I think PO will finish off the environment. Every stick of timber, lump of coal and molecule of gas will be burnt before the end. That is what scares me. The earth will look like the harvesting fields in Thr Matrix by the time we are finished.