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August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

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August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Jack » Thu 10 Aug 2006, 20:17:10

Per James Howard Kunstler:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ear in mind: there is perhaps no more widely respected Western scholar of Islamic culture than Mr. Lewis.


Excerpt:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')uring the Cold War, both sides possessed weapons of mass destruction, but neither side used them, deterred by what was known as MAD, mutual assured destruction. Similar constraints have no doubt prevented their use in the confrontation between India and Pakistan. In our own day a new such confrontation seems to be looming between a nuclear-armed Iran and its favorite enemies, named by the late Ayatollah Khomeini as the Great Satan and the Little Satan, i.e., the United States and Israel. Against the U.S. the bombs might be delivered by terrorists, a method having the advantage of bearing no return address. Against Israel, the target is small enough to attempt obliteration by direct bombardment.



Link

Posted for your consideration and discussion.

Side note: There is another solution. It starts with 'p', ends with 'n', and has 10 letters. 8)
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby rogerhb » Thu 10 Aug 2006, 20:25:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'I')t starts with 'p', ends with 'n', and has 10 letters. 8)


Procrastination?
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby TheTurtle » Thu 10 Aug 2006, 20:27:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'I')t starts with 'p', ends with 'n', and has 10 letters. 8)


Procrastination?


Learn to count, Roger. :lol:
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Jack » Thu 10 Aug 2006, 20:30:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '
')Procrastination?


Nope. Palpitation won't work either.
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby TheTurtle » Thu 10 Aug 2006, 20:32:13

Nor Prostitution. :P
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby firestarter » Thu 10 Aug 2006, 20:43:37

preemption
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Zardoz » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 01:25:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '.')..There is another solution...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('firestarter', 'p')reemption

Cool. Anybody know precisely where their ex-Soviet surplus warheads are stashed so we can pre-empt them?

Are you guys absolutely sure that Bernard Lewis and the WSJ are not in on this little program? :
[url=http://www.juancole.com/2006/08/one-ring-to-rule-them-wholesale.html]
One Ring To Rule Them[/url]

Are you absolutely sure this isn't all part of the advance preparation campaign, designed to get us sheeple in a nuking mood?
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Miki » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 04:52:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'P')er James Howard Kunstler:

Bear in mind: there is perhaps no more widely respected Western scholar of Islamic culture than Mr. Lewis.


For being the "most widely respected" Western scholar of Islamic culture, Lewis has a clear anti-Islamic and Pro-Israeli agenda. I wonder how much of his acclaim is due to the fact that his theories support the "official story" of the US government.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t would appear that Lewis is still the reigning monarch of Orientalism, as he was some twenty-five years back when Edward Said, in his Orientalism, dissected and exposed the intentions, modalities, deceptions, and imperialist connections of this ideological enterprise.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')dward Said gets to the nub of Lewis's Orientalist project when he writes that his "work purports to be liberal objective scholarship but is in reality very close to being propaganda against his subject material." Lewis's work is "aggressively ideological." He has dedicated his entire career, spanning more than five decades, to a "project to debunk, to whittle down, and to discredit the Arabs and Islam."


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')aid writes: The core of Lewis's ideology about Islam is that it never changes, and his whole mission is to inform conservative segments of the Jewish reading public, and anyone else who cares to listen, that any political, historical, and scholarly account of Muslims must begin and end with the fact that Muslims are Muslims.


For the full article, scroll dow:

[web]http://www.counterpunch.org/alam06282003.html[/web]
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Miki » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 05:01:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'A')re you absolutely sure this isn't all part of the advance preparation campaign, designed to get us sheeple in a nuking mood?


Very timely article indeed. Few days before the horrendous UK/American terrorist plot, and just in time to reinforce the link that the media is building between Hisballah, terrorism, and Iran.

Ahhh propaganda. Nothing more effective to justify a preemptive war like the ones Jack and Rwff are so fond of. Let's just hope their preemtive wars don't backfire at them. Preemptive wars are about stabbing your enemy from the back. Very coward. But your enemy might survive, turn around, and stab you looking you in the eyes.
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Jack » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 07:56:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '
')Are you absolutely sure this isn't all part of the advance preparation campaign, designed to get us sheeple in a nuking mood?


Perhaps it is. One must ask, "Is that a bad thing?"

If we don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons - and if a conventional land or air attack will not suffice to interrupt Iran's nuclear program - then the only viable solution may be a preemptive nuclear attack upon Iranian facilities.
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Jack » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 08:02:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'P')reemptive wars are about stabbing your enemy from the back. Very coward. But your enemy might survive, turn around, and stab you looking you in the eyes.


That's why the initial attack must be overwhelming. It's why U.S. nuclear doctrine depends on a strategic triad of land based nuclear missles, submarine based missles, and air dropped nuclear munitions - making a preemptive strike agains the U.S. ineffectual.

Not to worry, Miki - most of the weapons would target facilities; thus, they would detonate below the survace, reducing the collateral damage.
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Miki » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 09:49:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')
Perhaps it is. One must ask, "Is that a bad thing?"


It certainly is if you plan to follow the lead of your imperialist neocon government and slaughter people in exchange for dominion and resources.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f we don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons - and if a conventional land or air attack will not suffice to interrupt Iran's nuclear program - then the only viable solution may be a preemptive nuclear attack upon Iranian facilities.


1-You're already assuming that Iran is out to get you. There is no proof of that, so far---other than neocon propaganda. Israel has nuclear missiles that could reach any part of the Muslim world, including Iran. They never needed to "defend themselves". All they want is to advance their zionist imperialist means and steal Lebanese water. The same applies to the US. Bush's war in Irak was initially advertised as a "defensive war", then the rhethoric changed to a preemptive war (ie, a war crime), and now we all know it was just an imperialistic resource war. What makes you think the Iran story is not the same crap?

2-You think that war crimes are acceptable. Correct? It is a crime to kill people "just in case" they decide to attack you. It's a coward despicable inmoral disgusting hypocrite racist cheap ....behavior. It's exactly what the IDF is doing in Lebanon: bombarding a whole neighborhood "just in case" there was a Hisballah warrior there. On top of that, they accuse Hisballah of using civilians as shields, when today an Arab-Israeli authority was denouncing that the IDF has placed many of its positions among Arab-Israeli cities!!!!! No wonder half of the Israeli casualties have been Arab!!!!!!!!!! God, I hate the fu**ing coward criminal people that think like this! [smilie=icon_puke_r.gif]
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Miki » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 09:56:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'N')ot to worry, Miki - most of the weapons would target facilities; thus, they would detonate below the survace, reducing the collateral damage.


No, I don't worry. The IDF has already destroyed 2.5 billion dollars worth of infrastructure in Lebanon, sending our country 20 years back in time. You guys might as well bring a bulldozer and just flatten all Lebanon once and for all. But make sure you leave the Litani river intact, cause Israel needs our water badly. They don't have any of their own. Other than that, you could always use what is left of our land to plant corn and use it as fuel for your road trips to AZ or NM.
Last edited by Miki on Fri 11 Aug 2006, 12:12:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby TITAN » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 10:12:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '
')Are you absolutely sure this isn't all part of the advance preparation campaign, designed to get us sheeple in a nuking mood?


Perhaps it is. One must ask, "Is that a bad thing?"

If we don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons - and if a conventional land or air attack will not suffice to interrupt Iran's nuclear program - then the only viable solution may be a preemptive nuclear attack upon Iranian facilities.



JACK, this must be short for JACKASS. Are you really this stupid or are you just trying to increase traffic to this site? Your idea is the same idiotic concept as the asshole police officer that sees someone going 5 mph over the speed limit, and chases them down at 40 mph over the speed limit, just to give them a ticket. Who gives the cop the ticket?
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Jack » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 10:27:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')
Perhaps it is. One must ask, "Is that a bad thing?"


It certainly is if you plan to follow the lead of your imperialist neocon government and slaughter people in exchange for dominion and resources.


But Miki - I perceive advantages in such a policy. There is a reason for my "imperialist neocon government" to seize resources - that being, to keep the U.S. economy strong for a time. Thus, from my perspective, it really is desirable. I can understand why your views are different.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')If we don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons - and if a conventional land or air attack will not suffice to interrupt Iran's nuclear program - then the only viable solution may be a preemptive nuclear attack upon Iranian facilities.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')1-You're already assuming that Iran is out to get you. There is no proof of that, so far---other than neocon propaganda. Israel has nuclear missiles that could reach any part of the Muslim world, including Iran. They never needed to "defend themselves". All they want is to advance their zionist imperialist means and steal Lebanese water. The same applies to the US. Bush's war in Irak was initially advertised as a "defensive war", then the rhethoric changed to a preemptive war (ie, a war crime), and now we all know it was just an imperialistic resource war. What makes you think the Iran story is not the same crap?


It may well be exactly the "same crap" as you say. The mass of Americans see themselves as idealistic. Please note that I did not say they were idealistic - rather, I said that they perceived themselves as idealistic and even altruistic. If they are to be brought toward support of war with Iran, they must be manipulated into it. That is merely a necessary prelude to war. The lack of WMDs in Iraq complicated the process.

We are coming to an era of limited resources. Thus, one can either endure privation or steal whatever resources one can. Given the choice, a national policy of theft seems beneficial.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')2-You think that war crimes are acceptable. Correct?


As the fellow who supervised my activities once said: "The unethical we do immediately, the illegal just takes a little longer." 8)


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')It is a crime to kill people "just in case" they decide to attack you.


Please see the above quote.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')It's a coward despicable inmoral disgusting hypocrite racist cheap ....behavior.


You say that as if it's a bad thing.

The more important point is that it works. 8)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')It's exactly what the IDF is doing in Lebanon: bombarding a whole neighborhood "just in case" there was a Hisballah warrior there. On top of that, they accuse Hisballah of using civilians as shields, when today an Arab-Israeli authority was denouncing that the IDF has placed many of its positions among Arab-Israeli cities!!!!! No wonder half of the Israeli casualties have been Arab!!!!!!!!!! God, I hate the fu**ing coward criminal people that think like this! [smilie=icon_puke_r.gif]

Now, Miki. Hate destroys the hater. :lol:

You take all of this way too seriously. As a colleague of mine was fond of saying - after he had utterly betrayed people that believed him to be a friend, had ruined their lives forever - it's just business. That's what Lebanon is. Perhaps Isreal wants to grab the water, or maybe they're being used to provoke Iran, thus setting the wheels in motion for future action. But the lives of people on either side of the lines don't matter in the least to the real players.

And Miki - if you think the present festivities are distressing - you ain't seen nothin' yet.
Dieoff. Fun to watch. Better with hot buttered popcorn! [smilie=new_popcornsmiley.gif]
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Miki » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 12:28:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'B')ut Miki - I perceive advantages in such a policy. There is a reason for my "imperialist neocon government" to seize resources - that being, to keep the U.S. economy strong for a time. Thus, from my perspective, it really is desirable.


So, from your perspective, it is acceptable to slaughter people in exchange for oil, right?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e are coming to an era of limited resources. Thus, one can either endure privation or steal whatever resources one can. Given the choice, a national policy of theft seems beneficial.


I do appreciate that you call it by its name: STEALING. Cause Rgff insists that it is just about trading the oil in dollars, but in reality it is nothing less than stealing.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow, Miki. Hate destroys the hater. :lol:


It depends on who's the hater and how willing and capable he/she is to act upon that hatred. Don't underestimate the power of faith and will.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou take all of this way too seriously.


If it were your people you'd be taking it seriously too. Are you telling me that if your kid/mother/sibling/gf/best friend was blown in pieces tomorrow, you'd be taking it lightly?
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby Miki » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 13:05:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ElijahJones', 'T')he year in the article about the event being commemorated is wrong, 1427. Muhammad died in the eighth century.

Events in 1427

The Crusaders were bitterly defeated by the Hussites Aug 7, 1427.


If I'm not wrong, Lewis was referring to the Muslim calendar, which is determined by the moon cycle and has nothing to do with Jesus' birth.
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Re: August 22 (From WSJ - opinion journal

Unread postby eric_b » Fri 11 Aug 2006, 14:02:36

Well, I don't know.

My opinion is Iran would never seriously consider nuking Israel, and I consider the current presidents current stance little more than shit-talk. However the article does stress there's a cultural component to things - they've got their own version of armageddon.

As far as preemption, partially to get their oil... I consider that lunacy. I have trouble imagining how any nuclear exchange wouldn't end in disaster.
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