Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby shakespear1 » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 03:51:46

I was in Angola on contract for Total. It was my luck that I was working in the De Beer's Building where Total had some of its operations.

Angola is the saddest country I worked in in my whole career. During the summer I would drive through shanty towns in Luanda where the stench of sewage and garbage was simply unbearable. Yet people lived on while their masters it appears were squandering Billions away.

I recall that in 2003 the production in the country was being ramped up at a break neck speed. With todays prices these guys must be burning the money because I suspect giving some to the people would give them "the wrong ideas".

Another Very Sad Story of Life. :x
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 04:15:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', 'I') was in Angola on contract for Total. It was my luck that I was working in the De Beer's Building where Total had some of its operations.

Angola is the saddest country I worked in in my whole career. During the summer I would drive through shanty towns in Luanda where the stench of sewage and garbage was simply unbearable. Yet people lived on while their masters it appears were squandering Billions away.

I recall that in 2003 the production in the country was being ramped up at a break neck speed. With todays prices these guys must be burning the money because I suspect giving some to the people would give them "the wrong ideas".

Another Very Sad Story of Life. :x


Thanks Shakespeare. First hand experience is the best teacher and dispells a lot of myths. Very much appreciated. Cheers.
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby shakespear1 » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 05:03:06

Mr. Bill. Would you like to trade futures on a Moscow Exchange ?

I suspect the other exchanges are not perfect, but the willey ways of the Russian business would give me the willies to even try this. 8) But being a baby in terms of knowledge in this area I could be wrong.
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby Doly » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 05:05:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', 't')he willey ways of the Russian business


Could anybody give me some idea of how, exactly, the Russians do business? I've read a lot of comments about this, but I still don't get a clear idea of what goes on.
User avatar
Doly
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 04:00:00

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 05:24:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', 'M')r. Bill. Would you like to trade futures on a Moscow Exchange ?

I suspect the other exchanges are not perfect, but the willey ways of the Russian business would give me the willies to even try this. 8) But being a baby in terms of knowledge in this area I could be wrong.


We are members of both the RTS and the MICEX Russian exchanges. In general, volumes are low and so volatility high. But in the case of dual listings, local shares on the exchange traded in dollars or rubles, and ADRs listed on the NYSE or LSE traded in dollars, the price between the two (shares vs. ADRs) is always the difference between the local share in dollars or rubles plus or minus the dollar/ruble exchange rate.

Unless like previously with Gazprom that foreigners are technically prohibited from owning the local shares through a ring fence, in which case they will track one another, but the foreign ADRs will trade at a price premium to the local shares as funds will buy what they can in the ADRs market, while locals will buy the cheaper shares locally. This means they can do an arbitrage between a Russian company and an offshore Russian controlled company. It isn't right as then one class of shareholders has an advantage over another class. But it happens.

We do not trade gold or crude as it is simply not worth it on the RTS. The volumes are too small. The ICE or NYMEX offer better liquidity and the price of the RTS Urals contract is the price of the Brent contract less a discount for the grade.

Also I trade almost exclusively now on the ICE because it is all electronic, offers the NYMEX contracts in any case, and I can concentrate my initial margins on one exchange, so it is better use of my capital. I do not like to have to split my capital between various exchanges as then I have more unused capital sitting idly there just in case I need a margin call.

We trade the physical oil from Geneva. That is the part of the business that moves real product and not just futures and options that are used for hedging and speculative purposes.

The Russians are in general no different than traders in London or New York or anywhere else for that matter. They are all out to make a profit by being smarter or faster than the next guy. The Russian crisis aside, we lost more money on Refco's fraud and bankruptcy than we would ever risk on the RTS or Micex, so risks are relative!
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby shakespear1 » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 06:02:28

How do Rusians do business?

OK, this is just one example of mid size oil company coming in to do a project in W. Siberia.

The foreigners came in with cash, the local russian had the license. Start the project.

Local director is Russian, expats hold other management positions with a russian opposite.

Need a pipeline. OK, expats plan out the requirements, russians helps with russian paperwork. Prices are "negotiated" with the best company to do the job. Price not equal to western but maybe only 30-35 % below.The company fullfills all techniqual requirements etc.

Pipeline work starts and with time it is found that the work is way behind schedule. Expats starts to look into what is going on and finds

- old equipment is used for excavation, breaks down frequent
- work forces turns out to be from a prison labor camp !!!!
- pipe technical specs below required
- trenches not deep enough
etc etc

Since the pipeline is behind, production from the wells does not get to market, hence company has capital cost that need payement immediately. Seeing how slow everything is going the main foreign invester decides to pull out his stake. Company in trouble.

White night comes to the rescue. A Russian bank. One of the directors on the board "secures" the loan. He is a Duma member and a Yukos board member.

Things move ahead but STILL behind schedule. Comany is in hot water because now it owes the Bank. Bank gets the company. Later we find that the Yukos man is also tied to the Bank.

And the game goes on.

I left a LOT of the details out, but the mechanism is the clear. Bankrupt by creating problems that the foreigners are not able to resolve and then take over. Easy money.

The foreigner that bailed out early saved his butt and that is only because he knew the game VERY well. It was not his first time there and he is still there with another of his companies but as an investment company.

:)
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 07:54:55

HAHAHA! Close!

You forgot the 'pass the license buck ploy'.

Foreign company (FC) wins license from the Super Ministry to explore Block B somewhere in Siberia, but has to drill (X) wells over such and such a period of time (Y) or it risks penalties ($$).

FC has to deal with multitudes of Russian Ministries, each with their own rules and procedures. For example, planning, tax, environment, etc. not to mention local political interests euphemistically called rent seekers. Sometimes changes in rules are made rhetro-actively.

Due to lack of coordination between Ministries, FC falls seriously behind schedule as they cannot get the correct licenses to proceed. Never the less, FC has sunk plenty of start-up capital into finding oil & gas, they just cannot extract it.

At the end of period Y, the license is reviewed, and FC is found not to have lived-up to all its obligations under the said contract. FC says, 'not our fault, we could not get the correct licenses', the Super Ministry says, 'tough, that's your problem, it's not our fault either'.

Super Ministry takes license away from FC (because the price has gone up), and gives it instead to State Controlled Oil Co. (SCOCo). SCOCo. can then piggyback on the work that has already been done or even invite FC in to project now as a junior partner. SCOCo is controlled by friends & cronies of Super Ministry and may even provide management opportunities/ownership for retired politicians.

Regardless, the FC pays for the development, while the various rent seekers extract the value added. And the rules are written by those who hope to benefit the most for themselves.
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby shakespear1 » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 09:03:48

You got it Mr. Bill.

They also have another "I got your ba**s" regulation.

All field development plans ( just like you mentioned "drill XX wells in ZZ days/months/years" ) MUST get approval from the Ministry of Mines. These development plans are BS as they make no sense engineering wise or economically. HOWEVER they must be done in the way the Ministry wants them, using "crazy engineering".

Hence you will have with the Ministry a plan to drill 12 wells this year with an amazingly dense pattern that you know makes no sense. But this is what you must put on paper as a promise to them !!!! Just to make sure all is well you distribute some envelopes to make sure all the dots are approved. Those are your "ba**s" you just left in their safe.

I was always told, "Don't worry this is just a formality. It is just for them, we can always change it later". Yehh BUT. But what if they say "No, you did not do what you said you would do. We are taking the license away and you can take a hike". Then what?

Yukos was cooking books but so were all of them. However when a "needed" companies that are not doing honest business are "caught" cheating on their taxes or other things. The needed skeletons are taken out of the closet and show for all to admire how crooked they were. :)

Very Simple and Effective way to get WHAT you want and WHEN you want it. That is why Blair arrived to consecrate certain deal by BP in RUssia or Schroder for Germany. These are the iron clad deals, but I think even these can be undone.

8)
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 09:38:31

If you have skeletons in your closet, you had better keep your nose clean, and that is what Yukos and Menetap's management ignored to their peril.

Mr. Schroeder is now Chairman of the company who import natural gas from Gazprom to Germany and western Europe. While Mr. Putin is widely tipped to be the Chairman of Gazprom after 2008 when he must step down as President. Meanwhile, Gazprom has become of the largest integrated oil & gas producer in Russia, second in size only to Saudi Aramco in the world, but it is still a very murky, opaque business run by Kremlin insiders.

It is still not clear to anyone who Mr. Putin's hand picked replacement will be? Interesting as it is already halfway into 2006 and we really have no idea who we will be dealing with after elections in 2008? No wonder energy security was at the heart of the G8 meeting in St. Petersberg, but it is a shame that we are no more the wiser.

Ah, the risks of doing business in emerging markets? The subject of my PhD research! ; - )
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby Petrodollar » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 09:38:47

Mr. Bill, could you comment on this question:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')ren't the Russian's planning to move towards 100% ruble-based trades/contracts in 2007? Do you see the Ural's oil marker becoming ruble-based in the future?


BTW, I used Africa as a single example of the oil shocks of 1973-74 and 1979-80, but the "Third World Debt Crisis" of 1982 began with Mexico, and it applied to various Latin America countries too - not just Africa. Here's an academic paper that argues it was the recycling of petrodollars could have been used to develop 3rd world nations if they had not been managed by commercial banks (typically in the City of London and in New York) and squandered by guys like Mugabe (who was not in power back in the 1970s/80s, but is certianly today's poster child for corruption in Africa). Here's some academic comments re the 1980s debt crisis:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')Instead of proper investments and oversight] massive amounts of petrodollars (along with Eurodollars and the so-called "cheap money" of the early 1970s) found their way into the coffers of the big commercial banks and the pockets of corrupt "leaders" of the borrowing countries, which triggered their external debt problem.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rinciples of scientific research tell us not to look for a single, isolated factor in the study of the origins of any major crisis or change. Although major crises are usually triggered by a single factor, they are generally the results of processes and the culmination of developments. The present global debt crisis is no exception to this universal law: it is a product of the increasing expansion of finance/bank capital, its internationalization, i.e., accumulation of capital on a world scale, and the emergence of multinational banks looking for external outlets for investment. The petrodollars of the 1970s merely accelerated this process and expedited the outbreak of the debt crisis.


Anyhow, I would appreciate your comments about Russia's plans in 2007 re petroruble trades, etc.
User avatar
Petrodollar
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 406
Joined: Tue 19 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Maryland
Top

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 11:03:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Petrodollar', 'M')r. Bill, could you comment on this question:

I changed the order.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')Instead of proper investments and oversight] massive amounts of petrodollars (along with Eurodollars and the so-called "cheap money" of the early 1970s) found their way into the coffers of the big commercial banks and the pockets of corrupt "leaders" of the borrowing countries, which triggered their external debt problem.


So in other words, creditor nations fund debtor nations, or one nations current account surplus is another nations current account deficit. Today cheap Fed funds/BOJ get invested in housing, equities, emerging markets and other asset classes.

It may be a revelation to some, but banks take in money or borrow it and then lend it out again. Internationally active banks do this on a global scale.

Today instead of bank intermediated credit perhaps more popular in the 1970/s & 80/s this role is performed more by international capital markets, but the result is the same. Countries issue eurobonds in dollars or euros and private and public investors invest in those countries via these eurobonds. And these countries are expected to pay back these loans and not default. Something they do not always do, like Argentina. The result can be a financial crisis, but fortunately they are fewer and farther between as markets have become better at assessing risks and dealing with them after the fact. Never the less, that is no reason not to be vigilant about the US' current account deficit and unfunded liabilities, which are enormous in their absolute size relative to the rest of the world's savings.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')The present global debt crisis is no exception to this universal law: it is a product of the increasing expansion of finance/bank capital, its internationalization, i.e., accumulation of capital on a world scale, and the emergence of multinational banks looking for external outlets for investment. The petrodollars of the 1970s merely accelerated this process and expedited the outbreak of the debt crisis.


Something that merely accelerates this process and/or expedites the end result does not necessarily cause it to happen. Today we have global imbalances caused by the US' large external imbalances (budget deficit + trade deficit = current account deficit), which is funded by OPEC and non-OPEC oil producers, private & public investors as well as Asian central bankers.

If 'collectively' these international sources of capital invested their capital outside of the dollar zone, either in their own domestic markets or in other currencies, then the US would have to close its current account deficit via domestic savings. In other words higher real US interest rates. That foreign investors do not demand higher real interest rates from the US is a puzzle to me, but rest assured, as soon as they do demand higher real interest rates the US will be forced to pay them.

If the USA was forced to cover their own current account deficit via domestic savings, they would buy less imports from Asia, and they would buy less oil from OPEC and non-OPEC producers. Higher real interest rates would mean less investment in US stock markets or in real-estate. Consumers would pay higher interest rates on all new credit or credit tied to adjustable rate mortgages. Consumer demand, especially if accompanied by a weaker US dollar and therefore higher nominal crude oil prices, would be forced to spend less and save more. The US economy would slow and likely go into a recession if not a severe recession.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')ren't the Russian's planning to move towards 100% ruble-based trades/contracts in 2007? Do you see the Ural's oil marker becoming ruble-based in the future?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nyhow, I would appreciate your comments about Russia's plans in 2007 re petroruble trades, etc.

As of the end of 2006, Russia will have a nominally freely floating currency again as capital controls end. Russia does most of its trade with the eurozone, so a higher weighting of euros in Russia's foreign currency reserves certainly makes sense. I see no reason why long-term supply contracts between Europe and the EU could not be denominated in euros. However, I tend not to think they would be in rubles, as this would cause the ruble to appreciate against the euros making what little Russia manufactures less competitive.

Russia is a large oil exporter now, but they do not have the reserves of Saudi Arabia or other OPEC members. At current production, they may run out of oil in 15-20 years even taking into account new oilfields unless they prove to be much larger than is currently known (and how can we predict this)?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')Currently according to BP Statistical Review Russian has 60 billion barrels of proven oil reserves and natural gas reserves equivalent to another 280 billion barrels of oil. However, many analysts believe that if other Russian oil companies follow the suit and revise their reserves, this figure may go up to 180 billion barrels of oil.

Given that Saudi Arabia which currently has about 300 billion barrels of oil and its equivalent in proven reserves keeps its oil sector close to Western companies, Russia and the Caspian region are becoming more and more attractive to potential investors. European and U.S. leaders are wooing the Kremlin to approve strategic supply deals which would lessen the dependence on Middle East oil. old link on Russian reserves

Russia also actively trades with China, but as the yuan is not a freely traded currency, I am not inclined to believe bi-lateral trade between the two countries will be done in either rubles or yuan. As China has dollars to spend from its own exports, it makes sense for them to close their asset & liability gap by buying oil & gas as well as base metals from Russia in dollars.

Given that Russia will likely sell oil & gas to the EU and China in dollars or euros, and that Russia's oil reserves are not unlimited in any sense of the word, I am not sure of the benefits of a ruble denominated oil marker?

On the RTS they are trading a cash settled ruble contract, but it is not for physical settlement. Why? Simply Russian oil production bound for export has limitations.

One in Russia, oil & gas are either closely tied to the government or to only one or two other large firms. For example, BP-TNK who's production is at one end of the country does not have the luxury to make delivery at the other end of the country in settlement of a futures contract where Lukoil is the buyer for example (or vice versa).

A second reason might be market manipulation by large players to the detriment of small players. We have already seen members of the Duma taking strategic positions in companies shares on the RTS and Micex ahead of key votes on privatization and or regulatory matters (mobile telephony, power grid, etc.). Insider trading on privileged information would be a real constraint if 'other' foreign and small players felt the game was rigged.

The monopoly on export by Gazprom for natural gas, and Transneftegas for oil by pipeline, mean that there may be physical limitations to deliver crude oil in settlement of a futures contract. If I have no access to pipelines, and no right to export the crude, then why would I contract to make delivery or take delivery?

If these access problems were made 100% open to anyone and everyone then Russia would lose its lever of power over exports of crude oil. That is something the Kremlin has not even hinted at. Quite the opposite. They have tightened control. They are not going to let large players like international oil companies or traders circumvent export restrictions by using the RTS.

Even if the ruble contract is improved, is there likely to be mass migration to this contract? Setting aside the export question, the ruble contract will have to compete against other oil futures & options exchanges that start with economies of scale and market leadership. It is easier for the ICE or NYMEX or CME or CBOT to add a URALS sour blend crude contract than it is for the RTS to take that business away from larger, established exchanges that have lower transaction costs due to higher volumes and more straight through processing. The NYMEX open outcry model is having trouble to compete with the ICE's all electronic platform. Costs and speed of exectution do matter to investors.

Back office expenses. Moscow is now more expensive than either London or New York in latest surveys. A large exchange means more traders and more back office to do processing. Certain laws limiting the number of foreigners, having to register with the police, having to get medicals, work permits and living permits, etc. make living and working in Russia hard for foreigners. Far from getting simpler, many of these rules & regulations have gotten worse in the past 3-5 years.

Transport is expensive. The roads to the airports clogged. Public transport to airports is inadequate (although Moscow itself has a fine underground). Ministerial overlap mean lots of red tape. There is a lack of business hotels in Moscow and they are very expensive. Comparable housing is lacking. Customs and imports expensive and complicated.

Moscow just recently ran out of all beer, wine and spirits due to a change in the law with regards to labelling. I am not kidding. You won't find any alcohol in any Moscow stores right now and restaurants have been forced to allow diners to bring their own wine. These things still can and do happen.

Not insurmountable obstacles for sure, but barriers to entry that need to be resolved. Clearly, Mr. Putin can change any law almost by will. However, which laws are being changed cosmetically and which are designed to change the way business is being done? There are many laws on the books that are not enforced. There are many laws that are enforced unequally.

It may be useful for him to say now, see we have a ruble crude oil contract now on the RTS, why do not investors use it? And after 2008, it is no longer his problem. Quite the reverse. If speculation is true that he may take over Gazprom after he retires, then not having a free, open market for crude exports may suit him and Gazprom better?

As for foreign participants they will be waiting to see how fully convertible the ruble becomes in reality, to see whether new contracts are added to the RTS and whether volumes start to increase. If Russia wants the RTS to become a ruble substitute for the dollar denominated ICE or NYMEX then clearly free and open access to Russia's oil producing infrastructure and export pipelines is needed along with competition between Russian and international oil firms and traders.

I think 2007 is too soon to speak of these type of changes. Or at least I have seen no sign that these changes are being implemented on the ground where they count the most?
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby shakespear1 » Mon 07 Aug 2006, 11:22:41

Spot on Mr. Bill. Everything you say about Moscow and business is true.

When I was there year after year prices would go up but not what you would get for it. I was always mystified where this cash goes and how it gets out of there.

Moscow is just full of newly built apartment buildings with the most outrageous prices anywhere on the planet for what you are buying. Then only meters away is an old Soviet building where a grandma lives getting $20 pension per month. :?
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Tue 08 Aug 2006, 02:38:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', 'S')pot on Mr. Bill. Everything you say about Moscow and business is true.

When I was there year after year prices would go up but not what you would get for it. I was always mystified where this cash goes and how it gets out of there.

Moscow is just full of newly built apartment buildings with the most outrageous prices anywhere on the planet for what you are buying. Then only meters away is an old Soviet building where a grandma lives getting $20 pension per month. :?


She only has a roof over her head in a good area of downtown until Mayor Yuri Luzhkov condemns her building, so that his wife can redevelop the land! Then granny will be living in some Kruschev era cement slab building in a high crime area on the periphery of the city and taking one of the rickety buses that are always full of pensioners! Some winners, lot's of losers in Russia's race towards capitalism!


RE Petrorubles
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')...The government does not calculate the rise in prices from July 2005 to July 2006, but experts said it was more than 9 percent. "If we don't see a decline in the next few months, or very improved numbers, then one of the few options the Central Bank has is to let the ruble strengthen further," Westin said. But a significantly stronger ruble could backfire because it would attract more speculative investments in Russia... The extra money flows from these investments could lead to even more inflation. ...the government's announcement that it would let the ruble appreciate attracted a wave of inward investment and contributed to a 44 percent increase in the money supply between June 2005 and June 2006. Heavy government spending on national security and additional bureaucracy also boosted inflation..."


Food, Energy Hikes Threaten Inflation Targets

RE government debt as a percentage of GDP
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')orean government officials justify the debt buildup on the grounds that their sovereign debt is currently not half as much as many of the OECD (Organisation of Economic Co-operation and Development) countries. This is indeed correct, when one compares Korea’s national debt at 30.1 percent of the GDP to some of the developed nations such as Japan’s whopping 170 percent, Greece’s 108.9 percent, Italy’s 107.3 percent, Israel’s 101 percent, Belgium’s 93.6 percent, Germany’s 68.1 percent and the U.S.’ 64.7 percent. However, the rate of growth of Korea’s public debt is of national concern since it has quadrupled since the Asian financial crisis and is forecasted to exceed 300 trillion won (U.S. $321 billion) within the next two years.

Asian countries have been shifting from bank financed bailouts to market borrowings
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Tue 08 Aug 2006, 10:17:58

Petrorubles versus renminbi remittances or is that petrol troubles and renminbi pittances....
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') China is expected to import 15 million tons of crude oil from Russia this year, predicted Vice Minister of Commerce Yu Guangzhou on Monday.

Last year, China imported 12.78 million tons of crude oil from Russia, accounting for 10.1 percent of its total imports.

Energy resources are key to bilateral trade and economic cooperation between China and Russia, said Yu during an on-line chat with netizens of the Xinhuanet.com.

A new pipeline that will carry 30 million tons of crude oil a year is currently being studied. It would be 1,030 kilometers long and only 70 kilometers of it are in Russia.

Yu says that China's goal of investing 12 billion U.S. dollars in Russia by 2020 will be realized.

He said China had invested in 700 programs in Russia at the end of July with contracted capital of 1.34 billion U.S. dollars.

Russia has launched 1,912 companies in China with a contract value of 1.52 billion U.S. dollars and actual investment 570 million U.S. dollars.

China would continue to support Russia's application for entry in the World Trade Organization (WTO), said Yu, adding that it would create better conditions for bilateral cooperation with China.
China's crude oil imports from Russian on the rise

As I said earlier, although trade between China and Russia is a natural and growing, Russia supplying China with the base metals and crude oil for manufacturing, but for the time being this trade is likely to be conducted in dollars only.

China has a dollar surplus that is growing at $250 billion per year that at the moment is flowing in its central bank reserves. Rather than open up a foreign exchange postion, by say denominating trade in euros, it makes sense for China to pay for Russian imports in dollars decreasing their exposure to a weaker US dollar.

Also, as China spend much of that $250 billion trying to keep the yuan low against the dollar it makes sense to use those funds for strategic imports.

It would not be good for Russia to denominate exports to China in rubles as Russia is already trying to sterilize flows of foreign currency into rubles to keep domestic money supply under control. And denominating oil exports in rubles would force the ruble to appreciate and that would undermine non-oil exports, in pulp & paper for example, in essense creating the Dreaded Dutch Disease.

Also a stronger ruble would stimulate imports from the eurozone, and surrounding countries like Poland, in such areas as agricultural products, again competing head to head with Russian producers such as Wim Bill Dann, a maker of dairy products that compete with foreign competitors such as Danone.

The size of the Russian economy and capital markets simply cannot tolerate large inflows of hot money, so they need to carefully manage the strength of the ruble against the dollar, and against the euro especially for competitive reasons.

Whereas sales of oil & natural gas in euros would offset imports to Russia in euros. And excess euros can be held by the CBR in euros without subjecting Russia to any falls in the dollar. Likely why Russia has increased their holding of euros and pounds in their foreign exchange reserves in any case. A trend that is likely to continue as the CBR is definately not buying a lot of US treasury bills. Excess reserves held in euros would not force the ruble to appreciate, eroding Russia's exports to Europe and abroad.



RE state controlled oil majors dominate Russian oil industry
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Kremlin's drive for greater control over Russia's energy sector will accelerate but, in contrast to other resource-rich countries, will involve fierce rivalry between two state champions, analysts said.

Western oil investors seeking a foothold in Russia have accepted the idea that they will have to partner either state oil firm Rosneft (ROST.RTS: Quote, Profile, Research) or gas monopoly Gazprom (GAZPq.L: Quote, Profile, Research) in any big future projects.

But they would not dream of pulling out of Russia -- where booking substantial oil reserves or buying minority stakes in sizeable producers is still possible -- unless the Kremlin launches a direct attack on their interests.


"It has become clear that it will be increasingly difficult to implement major energy projects in Russia without the involvement of state champions," said Elena Anankina from Standard & Poors.
State giants rivalry to shape Russia's oil future

So again back to a fair, free and open oil market on which to base a ruble denominated crude futures contract on the RTS. Who is going to line-up against the state controlled oligolopies? A futures exchange needs equal numbers of buyers and sellers in order to function efficiently as well as many smaller speculators. What it does not need is a few insiders who control all the choke points like pipelines and export facilities. IMHO.
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MOCKBA » Tue 08 Aug 2006, 11:25:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'T')hat foreign investors do not demand higher real interest rates from the US is a puzzle to me,

Bah, but this is easy... :) Customer is always right, only at the end the customer is not the one who buys US debt, but the US who simply are buying - they set the terms... If you cannot work with those terms, you are not selling. This is Walmart 101.

Back in the days when Euro broke the tie with USD, Greenspan said that FED does not give a shit about USD exchange rate (external account deficit, etc.) - this was perhaps the deepest statement that I heard from Greenspan which been puzzling me ever since and ever since I come up with a new story to first debunk him only to prove him right, thus the depth of this statement, but Greenspan aside... China is selling "no matter how thin is a candle it is still a candle", sure US is buying - it is such a steal, but that China would loose all those money when they would have to appreciate RMB - this is not US problem - hey, that "thin candle" died out long time ago...

Being largest consumer economy, US can afford to only worry about internal cituation and not to worry about anything else, unlike everybody else who need to work both sides internal and external. If you cannot sell to US, there always will be somebody who could and would be more then happy to do so. What is more interesting is that, this could last for quite sometime, even from where we stand today, because there is a lot of room to go from debt being low 60% of GDP. The ceiling is the World total savings and we are not close to exhaust it yet.

Another interesting angle - at $250B/year, China pretty much financed the war in Iraq... now is the time to skim the profits from reconstruction. Considering that US been playing with somebody else money, profits would be a lot better then playing with own money. US are pretty good at making money, ain't they?
User avatar
MOCKBA
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Mon 05 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 09 Aug 2006, 04:05:27

Mockba wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')rBill wrote:
That foreign investors do not demand higher real interest rates from the US is a puzzle to me,


Bah, but this is easy... Customer is always right, only at the end the customer is not the one who buys US debt, but the US who simply are buying - they set the terms... If you cannot work with those terms, you are not selling. This is Walmart 101.


Hello Mockba, I haven't seen you for a while thanks for your comments. The problem is that China is building their reserves (now) at a pace of about $250 billion per year. The USA needs $1 trillion (now) to plug their current account deficit.

It is no mystery to me why China is helping to plug the US deficit, as they want to keep the yuan undervalued (or competitive depending on from where you sit and judge), and they need those sales to the USA to keep their assembly for re-export factories humming, no matter how thin the candle is, as you said. Walmart 101 is correct.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')A light bulb went off in my head today when I read in the Wall Street Journal that the fall in US long-term bond yields (and increase in bond-prices) in July added around $7b to Japan’s reserves, pushing Japan’s total reserves up to almost $872b. The ten year rate when from 5.15 to 4.9 in July.

I have been adjusting for valuation changes from currency moves. But not for valuation changes from interest rate moves. And valuation changes from interest rate moves just may explain the slow pace of China’s April reserve increase (around $10b after my adjustments for currency valuation, well below China’s roughly $20b a month average).
China's foreign exchange reserves


However, it is more of a mystery to me of why other foreign investors are still plugging the US current account deficit given that the dollar has not proven to be a good store of value, and returns on US bound investments have consistantly earned a lower rate of return than US foreign investments abroad?

Petrodollar recycling explains another $250 billion in direct US treasury or agency bond purchases, but still not the whole $1 trillion.

Investment agencies (Kuwait, Saudi, etc.) and other quasi-government 'savers' may be investing in US assets, not necessarily US treasuries, directly or indirectly through hedge funds and investment banks in London and from offshore. Likely they are buying other instruments, like sovereign foreign bonds, and the investment banks hedge themselves by buying US treasuries, so they only have the 'basis' risk in an uncertain interest rate environment?

Or the hedge funds may be slicing and dicing the US yield curve and selling off bits and pieces to more sophisticated investors?

But the story is not buying US treasuries to hold to maturity. I am sure of that. Yields have been too low, alternatives have been more attractive, and the US dollar has been under pressure, especially now that the Fed paused in his rate hiking, just when BOE/ECB/Australia and others raised theirs. In fact, it is easier to make the case for buying dollar assets now, rather than over the past several years, now that rates are higher, the Fed has paused and the dollar is closer to $1.3000 than under $1.2000?

Not to rely on the behaviorial finance crutch, but it seems like prisoner's dilemma? No one wants to finance the USA, but no one wants upset the quasi-Bretton Woods II arrangement that has emerged based on the US as consumer of last resort and those deficits financing higher, faster world growth than would otherwise be the case.

Sure the Bank of Italy and some others have broken ranks on the dollar, but they are the bit players so far. But for the grace of the Bundesbank and other European central banks buying unwanted Italian govies Italy could not finance its own budget and trade deficits. I guess being experts in serial currency devaluations themselves, they can see the writing on the wall for the USA as well as anyone? ; - )
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby shakespear1 » Wed 09 Aug 2006, 05:58:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'However, it is more of a mystery to me of why other foreign investors are still plugging the US current account deficit given that the dollar has not proven to be a good store of value, and returns on US bound investments have consistantly earned a lower rate of return than US foreign investments abroad? ')

Here is an off the deep-end guess. Drug money. :lol:
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 09 Aug 2006, 07:26:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', '[')code]However, it is more of a mystery to me of why other foreign investors are still plugging the US current account deficit given that the dollar has not proven to be a good store of value, and returns on US bound investments have consistantly earned a lower rate of return than US foreign investments abroad? [/code]

Here is an off the deep-end guess. Drug money. :lol:


Technically, if drugs are sold in dollars in the USA by offshore drug cartels, and then the ill-gotten gains reinvested into US treasuries that would be classified as Narcodollar Recycling. Of course, if the drugs are produced in LATAM, and paid for in local currency, pesos or whatever, then this would result in a net outflow of US dollars and would not help to plug the US current account deficit. Therefore, policy makers always try to make sure there are lots of hundred dollar bills in circulation outside of the borders to make narcodollar recycling simpler. However, counterfeit US dollars made by North Korea can make such policy goals more complicated if the Hermit Kingdom under sells their American competitors.
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby shakespear1 » Wed 09 Aug 2006, 08:54:13

Hence the "urban legend" of cocain stained dollars. :)
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: The Petrodollar and Post Peak Oil

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 09 Aug 2006, 09:59:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', 'H')ence the "urban legend" of cocain stained dollars. :)


Right it is not LATAM cocaine at all. It is traces of heroine and amphetamines on those super fakes that N.Korea sells to criminal underworld gangs. Rumor has it they are so good, they even made some improvements to the US' official currency?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he commissioner general of Japan's National Police Agency said Friday the North Korean government was involved in the alleged smuggling of several hundred kilograms of amphetamines from North Korea in 2002.
N. Korea gov't involved in 2002 drug smuggling: Japan police chief

And,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he notes are made with the highest quality ink and paper, designed to recreate the various security features of United States currency, such as the red and blue security fibers; the security thread; and the watermark; even experts need to study a note intensively before determining if it is a forgery. Officially they are known as the PN-14342 family, after the classification system the Secret Service uses. The notes are printed using the intaglio and typographic printing processes.
No Ordinary Counterfeit

Well, that is one way to balance your budget and cover your foreign exchange needs. The other is produce nuclear weapons and then blackmail your neighbors by threatening to sell the arms to terrorist groups!
Superdollar
The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
User avatar
MrBill
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Eurasia
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron