$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')You don't just have to shrink the car, you have to shrink the rest of it too.
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Automotive X-Prize site online - affordable 250mpg car
Re: Automotive X-Prize site online - affordable 250mpg car
by Omnitir » Mon 31 Jul 2006, 19:55:04
Of course, and that is what will happen, is happening.
The two biggest wastes of resources are in manufacturing and in transport. Both of these areas have huge amounts of room for improvement. Dramatic increases in efficiency in manufacturing cars (and everything else) and in operating cars will go a very long way. Long enough to make a transition completely away from fossil fuels.
"Mother Nature is a psychopathic bitch, and she is out to get you. You have to adapt, change or die." - Tihamer Toth-Fejel, nanotech researcher/engineer.
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Re: Automotive X-Prize site online - affordable 250mpg car
by Heineken » Mon 31 Jul 2006, 20:44:06
That is not what's happening, Omnitir. Suburban sprawl has grown by leaps and bounds this year, last year, the year before it . . .
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Re: Automotive X-Prize site online - affordable 250mpg car
by Omnitir » Tue 01 Aug 2006, 20:20:20
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')hat is not what's happening, Omnitir. Suburban sprawl has grown by leaps and bounds this year, last year, the year before it . . .
It is happening, it’s just not something discussed as much as sprawl or transport.
As I pointed out, the biggest consumer of energy is industry, which is an area with massive potential for efficiency increases. And just as there is a growing push for increased efficiency in the transport sector driven by economic factors, there is also a growing push for increased efficiency in the industrial sector driven by economic factors. Large increases in the way cars and other products are manufactured, which is absolutely achievable, will greatly reduce total oil consumption.
As car manufacturers are striving to produce more fuel efficient vehicles, they are also striving to reduce energy consumption in the manufacturing process through improved manufacturing techniques and technologies.
This is how the entire system is shrinking, and this is far more important then sprawl (which consumes a fraction of the energy that could be saved in the industrial sector).
"Mother Nature is a psychopathic bitch, and she is out to get you. You have to adapt, change or die." - Tihamer Toth-Fejel, nanotech researcher/engineer.
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Re: Automotive X-Prize site online - affordable 250mpg car
by dub_scratch » Wed 02 Aug 2006, 13:36:07
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'T')hat is not what's happening, Omnitir. Suburban sprawl has grown by leaps and bounds this year, last year, the year before it . . .
It is happening, it’s just not something discussed as much as sprawl or transport.
As I pointed out, the biggest consumer of energy is industry, which is an area with massive potential for efficiency increases. And just as there is a growing push for increased efficiency in the transport sector driven by economic factors, there is also a growing push for increased efficiency in the industrial sector driven by economic factors. Large increases in the way cars and other products are manufactured, which is absolutely achievable, will greatly reduce total oil consumption.
As car manufacturers are striving to produce more fuel efficient vehicles, they are also striving to reduce energy consumption in the manufacturing process through improved manufacturing techniques and technologies.
The above statement exposes the sheer folly in auto fuel economy and demonstrates why incremental energy efficiency has never lowered energy consumption and will never solve anything as far as the oil crisis and suburbia is concerned. The fact that you have to manufacture your way into a high MPG fleet means that it is inherently slow, costly and ironically takes shitloads of energy before you ever get there. Imagine, in order to turnover the fleet, you have to keep traffic jammed with single-loaded cars & SUVs for decades. The system clearly does not have decades of cheap oil to do that, and if it did there is every reason to think the car buying public would continue to skip the hybrids and go for the Hummers.
I will submit to you my prediction that we will see energy efficiency in the realm of the motoring system. It will all come from drastic reductions in vehicle miles traveled (VMT) and not from anything but a tiny number of cars being sold. This is systemic energy efficiency-- energy efficiency from the system as a whole-- as opposed to incremental energy efficiency which is expressed in the focus on MPG.
Incidentally, the best way to improve average MPG within the average mile driven is curtailment of VMT. My Audi gets 25 MPG in typical LA clogged traffic but does 36 MPG when the highways are clear. And if the curtailment of miles driven is delegated to the least efficient cars in the overall fleet, then the average MPG of the cars driven could go up dramatically. There is every reason to expect the gas pigs would be driven less in a fuel scarce world.
It is hard to predict and measure the size of the fuel economy "bonus" that will come when we decide not to be a motoring nation. But my guess is that we could see a 10-15 MPG improvement.......And all without manufacturing anything.
Itza slam-dunk.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')This is how the entire system is shrinking, and this is far more important then sprawl (which consumes a fraction of the energy that could be saved in the industrial sector).
America's almost uniform urban layout has made our oil consumption double that of Western Europe and Japan. Sprawl will have to be reformed to some degree in order to make a low VMT world viable. It can be done.
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