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Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Jack » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:00:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('azreal60', 'I') thought google made it a policy to only update those maps after wars. At least, that's what I thought.


Of course. My idea was to:

1) Bring up the area on Google maps
2) Take a screenshot
3) Import in into Adobe Photoshop
4) Mark it up as needed
5) Upload the image to a server somewhere
6) Post the link here.

I should have been more concise. Sorry.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Jack » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:12:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')Let me get this right Jack. Following your reasoning, what happened in 9/11 was nothing. Had we drawn the degree of damage on a US map, two towers in NY would have been too minuscle to even show in the map.

Faulty reasoning, don't you think?


From the perspective of number of casualties, you're absolutely correct - the 9/11 attack was nothing. I believe we have something like 40,000 traffic deaths per year, so 3,000 is roughly equivalent to one month's routine losses.

Events suggest that the subsequent invasion of Afghanistan was bungled, and - worse - that the invasion of Iraq was an error. It would, I think, be reasonable to suggest that emotional loading led the U.S. astray.

It's interesting to note that the U.S. securities markets held up well. I believe this suggests that the aggregate view was that the impact of 9/11 was inconsequential.

One must, I think, draw a distinction between perceived impact and actual impact. In the case of 9/11, the perceived impact was large and the actual impact small. Given your closeness to the situation in Lebanon, you might wish to reflect on this.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby TheTurtle » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:14:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'L')et me get this right Jack. Following your reasoning, what happened in 9/11 was nothing. Had we drawn the degree of damage on a US map, two towers in NY would have been too minuscle to even show in the map.


I absolutely love excellent analogies. Well done, Miki! 8)
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby TheTurtle » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:19:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', ' ') In the case of 9/11, the perceived impact was large and the actual impact small.


Actual impact was small?
Before 9/11, I could board a plane with a 3-inch Spyderco in my pocket and I didn't have to take off my shoes. :-x
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Jack » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:33:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')How about these FACTS for context?

Just to give you an idea,

1-Over 30% of the Lebanese population has been converted into refugees in only two weeks.


That's an interesting report. Thank you.

Keep in mind, though, that when Lebanon - or, if you prefer, some elements of the Lebanese population - permitted Hezbollah to continue operating on their soil, they made an implicit decision to gamble their economic stability. Arguably, they put at risk their survival as a sovereign nation.

No doubt the aid received from Hezbollah seemed worthwhile at the time. But by accepting the aid and permitting operations to originate from their territory, they took a risk. In the end, the costs you list were predictable.

It does no good to state that Lebanon was unable to force Hezbollah out. In the end, the civilian population will be in the middle of a war.

No doubt someone will bring up 9/11. That too was predictable.

I'll make a further prediction - the events in Iraq, Lebanon, and other locales will result in other, more damaging attacks on U.S. soil. Our policies of open borders and free trade, combined with an unpopular foreign policy, make it a certainty. Let me make it clear that I do not want this to happen. But my desires carry no weight in such matters.

A further prediction - as population pressures, famine, and peak oil develop, the Middle East is going to become even bloodier and more dangerous. You really might wish to consider departing Lebanon. I do not think its fate will be pleasant.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Miki » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:34:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')It's interesting to note that the U.S. securities markets held up well. I believe this suggests that the aggregate view was that the impact of 9/11 was inconsequential.


I don't think the invasion, slaughter, and destruction of Afghanistan, Irak, and Lebanon are inconsequential.

I don't think the killing of 10 000 NYC civilians is inconsequential. I don't think the killing of *one* civilian is inconsequentia for that matter.

I think your definition of "inconsequential" is quite materialistic, if not amoral.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ne must, I think, draw a distinction between perceived impact and actual impact. In the case of 9/11, the perceived impact was large and the actual impact small. Given your closeness to the situation in Lebanon, you might wish to reflect on this.
[/quote]

I gave you the facts (see post above). My closeness to the situation does not render the facts less true.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Jack » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:37:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheTurtle', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', ' ') In the case of 9/11, the perceived impact was large and the actual impact small.


Actual impact was small?
Before 9/11, I could board a plane with a 3-inch Spyderco in my pocket and I didn't have to take off my shoes. :-x


Was that due to 9/11? Or was it because the populace screamed "Do sumpin!" Followed by the politicians putting in a set of bizarre policies...which were distorted by the loathsome Norm Mineta...which were further misapplied by the more loathsome TSA?

I think we need to draw a distinction between emotional impact and actual impact.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Jack » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:43:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')I don't think the invasion, slaughter, and destruction of Afghanistan, Irak, and Lebanon are inconsequential.


I suppose we must agree to disagree on this one. I look at the numbers and note that the population losses will be replaced in a matter of days or weeks and conclude that the present death rate is trivial. Clearly, you have a different perspective.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')I don't think the killing of 10 000 NYC civilians is inconsequential. I don't think the killing of *one* civilian is inconsequentia for that matter.


Again, we view things differently. I doubt our views will come together.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')I think your definition of "inconsequential" is quite materialistic, if not amoral.


Thank you. I regard being amoral as high praise indeed.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Miki » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:49:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'K')eep in mind, though, that when Lebanon - or, if you prefer, some elements of the Lebanese population - permitted Hezbollah to continue operating on their soil, they made an implicit decision to gamble their economic stability. Arguably, they put at risk their survival as a sovereign nation.


Not really. Hisballah was the only party willing and somewhat able to protect Palestinians and Lebanese from the slaughter of Palestinian civilians and the invasion of Lebanese and Palestinian territories. If there was no Hisballah, the gamble would be exactly the same: as long as Israel uses terrorism to achieve its hegemonic aims, our economic stability and sovereignity will be in danger.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'ll make a further prediction - the events in Iraq, Lebanon, and other locales will result in other, more damaging attacks on U.S. soil. Our policies of open borders and free trade, combined with an unpopular foreign policy, make it a certainty. Let me make it clear that I do not want this to happen. But my desires carry no weight in such matters.


I agree.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') further prediction - as population pressures, famine, and peak oil develop, the Middle East is going to become even bloodier and more dangerous. You really might wish to consider departing Lebanon. I do not think its fate will be pleasant.


Arabic culture values family, heritage, roots, and homeland. It's a matter of honor. They'd rather stay and be slaughtered than to lose their lands.

Don't underestimate their resilience, braveness, and fierceness. As an example, Hisbalah managed to push Israel out of Lebanon, despite of its weaker armament.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Jack » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 08:56:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')Not really. Hisballah was the only party willing and somewhat able to protect Palestinians and Lebanese from the slaughter of Palestinian civilians and the invasion of Lebanese and Palestinian territories. If there was no Hisballah, the gamble would be exactly the same: as long as Israel uses terrorism to achieve its hegemonic aims, our economic stability and sovereignity will be in danger.


Ahh, perspective. And so it will continue, back and forth, until my tombstone has decayed into dust. I suppose the fighting will continue well beyond 3000 AD. (Not a typo - three thousand AD).
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby nwildmand » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 11:18:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'N')ot really. Hisballah was the only party willing and somewhat able to protect Palestinians and Lebanese from the slaughter of Palestinian civilians and the invasion of Lebanese and Palestinian territories. If there was no Hisballah, the gamble would be exactly the same: as long as Israel uses terrorism to achieve its hegemonic aims, our economic stability and sovereignity will be in danger.


well those terrorist thugs are doing a fine job protecting you. as long as hezbola is there israel will wipe its ass with you

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')Arabic culture values family, heritage, roots, and homeland. It's a matter of honor. They'd rather stay and be slaughtered than to lose their lands.


then why the mass exodus to europe?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
') Hisbalah managed to push Israel out of Lebanon, despite of its weaker armament.

when? this is a blatant lie brought to you by your local terrorists. just because the us said enough is enough does not mean you won.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', ' ')I don't think the killing of *one* civilian is inconsequentia for that matter.


miki this is a peak oil site not just a defend the middle east site. millions if not billions are going to die in ways to numerous to count. countries like yours that produce nothing are going to bear the brunt of the dieoff.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Specop_007 » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 11:53:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ontext, my good Sir, context. I fear that the passions of the moment my deprive us of that essential element - to our great detriment.[list]


How about these FACTS for context?


Lets put some extra light on these....facts.....

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')ust to give you an idea,

1-Over 30% of the Lebanese population has been converted into refugees in only two weeks.


People dont want to live in a warzone? Who'd a thought....
Maybe we should compare it to the events in New Orleans. Almost a 100% refugee rate.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2')-The economy of the country has collapsed. It will take years to recover, if not decades.


Decades? It isnt like the country has been completely demolished. If it takes decades, well, I'll have to assume that would be to the fine planning of the people in charge. And from the map that was posted, I'd bet the contractors building homes in my subdivision could rebuild it in 4 months. But then again, maybe its a motivation/planning/work ethic thing.
I dunno, just speculation.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '3')-The infrastructure destroyed *so far* has taken the country 30 years back in time, and we'll need 3 000 million dollars to reconstruct all the damaged areas.

1600 BC instead of 1570 BC. Damn shame.
Actually, probably more then that. Power and travel. Very important stuff.
But none the less, it isnt like this is going to be a condition which isnt corrected, unless of course there are no plans to rebuild the damaged areas.
As for the damages in dollars, 3000 million sounds like a hell of a lot. But maybe it will be that much.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '4')-On a per capita basis (this country has around 4 million people), the death toll has been the equivalent of a 9/11 *per day*. for the last two weeks, and counting.

Just to clarify, how many of those people in the WTC Towers were terrorists or terrosist supporters? How many were training people how to build bombs and strap them to their chests and run into schools to blow up children? How many were actively carrying weapons against other people?

Far as I can see it, there hasnt been nearly enough people given the dirt nap. Not by a long shot.
I dont think Israel will disappoint though.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Miki » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 12:15:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'w')ell those terrorist thugs are doing a fine job protecting you.


1-What Israel is doing in Lebanon is terrorism by all standards. Whoevr denies that has a problem with morality.

2-Hisballah is doing what they can do. At least they're not running away like cowards.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')s long as hezbola is there israel will wipe its ass with you


1-You obviously have very little knowledge about Middle Eastern politics. I've explained in many other posts why it is not feasible for the Lebanese government to disarm Hisbalah. If you're genuinely interested in getting a more objective perspective, you're more than invited to review those posts.

2-Israel will wipe its ass with you too, once you're not useful to it anymore, just like it did when 9/11 happened. They don't give a fu** about Americans. All they care about is their own hegemonic agendas. If the US was in its way, they'd eager to wipe you out of the face of earth too.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')Arabic culture values family, heritage, roots, and homeland. It's a matter of honor. They'd rather stay and be slaughtered than to lose their lands.


then why the mass exodus to europe?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')
Immigration is a common phenomenon among Third World countries. This is off-topic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')isbalah managed to push Israel out of Lebanon, despite of its weaker armament.
when? this is a blatant lie brought to you by your local terrorists. just because the us said enough is enough does not mean you won.

Year: 2000
Event: After 18 years of occupation and fights with Hisballah, Israel finally decided to give back some of the Lebanese land it had invaded.

It seems you're one of those arrogant Americans who think everything that happens in the world is either targeted at the US or a consequence of a US action. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there is more to the world than "America".

[$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'q')uote="Miki"] I don't think the killing of *one* civilian is inconsequentia for that matter.

miki this is a peak oil site not just a defend the middle east site. millions if not billions are going to die in ways to numerous to count. countries like yours that produce nothing are going to bear the brunt of the dieoff.[/quote][/quote]

1-I'm posting in the Open Discussion sectionm. If you want to discuss oil, you are invited to read more appropriate posts.

2-My country has produced some of the most important people that live in your country and the world, including an ex-presidential candidate, one of the participants in the formulation of the Universal Declaration of Human rights, Nobel prizes, American generals, majors, congressmen, ministers, CEOs of some of the most important companies such as Ford, Haggar, Renault, Kinkos, 3 presidents of Latin America, etc etc

You should be grateful.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Specop_007 » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 12:22:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '2')-My country has produced some of the most important people that live in your country and the world, including an ex-presidential candidate, one of the participants in the formulation of the Universal Declaration of Human rights, Nobel prizes, American generals, majors, congressmen, ministers, CEOs of some of the most important companies such as Ford, Haggar, Renault, Kinkos, 3 presidents of Latin America, etc etc

You should be grateful.


I was going to try to make a logical reply, but I got to this point.

I dunno what the color of the sky is in your world, but it sure as hell aint blue!

Thanks for the laugh Miki.
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Miki » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 12:47:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') was going to try to make a logical reply, but I got to this point.


Oh, you can make logical replies?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') dunno what the color of the sky is in your world, but it sure as hell aint blue!


Actually, since the Israeli terrorists started bombarding the sky has been gray most of the time, something extremely unusual for the summer months. I wonder if they're putting something else on those bombs....Some doctors here have reported that illegal materials have been found on some patients.

I wouldn't be surprised. Anything can be expected from bastard terrorists like the Israeli and American governments.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Miki » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 13:02:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1')-Over 30% of the Lebanese population has been converted into refugees in only two weeks.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')eople dont want to live in a warzone? Who'd a thought....
Maybe we should compare it to the events in New Orleans. Almost a 100% refugee rate.


There's a little problem though: all those people have lost their home. There's not much left of South Beirut and the South of Lebanon. At second thought, there is some left: tons of dead bodies buried under debris. The dead bodies buried in Dahie are starting to smell. People can't take their dead family from the debris because Israeli would murder them and bury them on top of their dead relatives.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2')-The economy of the country has collapsed. It will take years to recover, if not decades.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ecades? It isnt like the country has been completely demolished. If it takes decades, well, I'll have to assume that would be to the fine planning of the people in charge.


The economy of the country is mostly based on banking and tourism. Do you think anyone will be interested in visiting or putting his/her money here after this?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '3')-The infrastructure destroyed *so far* has taken the country 30 years back in time, and we'll need 3 000 million dollars to reconstruct all the damaged areas.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1')600 BC instead of 1570 BC. Damn shame.

1-I'd rather live in 5 BC than to live among people like you.

2-Have you ever been to Lebanon Specop? Or are you talking from your experience in Holywood movies?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for the damages in dollars, 3000 million sounds like a hell of a lot. But maybe it will be that much.

The amount was estimated by the British journal "The Guardian".

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')ust to clarify, how many of those people in the WTC Towers were terrorists or terrosist supporters? How many were training people how to build bombs and strap them to their chests and run into schools to blow up children? How many were actively carrying weapons against other people?


1-Lebanese civilians are not terrorists either. Neither are the tons of Palestinian civilians that have been slaughtered by Israel in the last 40 years, thanks to American tax dollars.

2-Following your reasoning, ALL the people that died in the WTC were American, and Americans have been funding Israeli terrorism in the Middle East, which by default converts them in accomplices to terrorism. So they deserved to die, just like Lebanese civilians deserved to die just because they were living in the same country as Hisballah.

3-Suicide bombers are not the only forms of terrorism. Here's a collage of Israeli terrorism against Palestinians for you:

[web]http://www.musalman.com/palestine/index.html[/web]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ar as I can see it, there hasnt been nearly enough people given the dirt nap. Not by a long shot.

We are all cognizant of your morals. You don't need to remind us every time.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby nwildmand » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 13:13:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '1')-What Israel is doing in Lebanon is terrorism by all standards. Whoevr denies that has a problem with morality.

2-Hisballah is doing what they can do. At least they're not running away like cowards.


fair enough we are all terrorists. fine by me. at least our terrorist have a military. i know they are not running like cowards, they are hiding themselves among the people like cowards.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '1')-You obviously have very little knowledge about Middle Eastern politics. I've explained in many other posts why it is not feasible for the Lebanese government to disarm Hisbalah. If you're genuinely interested in getting a more objective perspective, you're more than invited to review those posts.


ive read every one of your posts. and i will reiterate, as long as hezbolah is in your country you will be a target for isreal.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '2')-Israel will wipe its ass with you too, once you're not useful to it anymore, just like it did when 9/11 happened. They don't give a fu** about Americans. All they care about is their own hegemonic agendas.


show how little you know about america. we have the highest population of jews on the planet. and they are a powerful social class. face it israel is our 51st state.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'I')f the US was in its way, they'd eager to wipe you out of the face of earth too.


i feel like i should make a personal attack for the above statment

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'A')rabic culture values family, heritage, roots, and homeland. It's a matter of honor. They'd rather stay and be slaughtered than to lose their lands.

then why the mass exodus to europe?[/quote]$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', '
')
Immigration is a common phenomenon among Third World countries. This is off-topic.

point taken. but it is in direct conflict with your previous statment.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'Y')ear: 2000
Event: After 18 years of occupation and fights with Hisballah, Israel finally decided to give back some of the Lebanese land it had invaded.

It seems you're one of those arrogant Americans who think everything that happens in the world is either targeted at the US or a consequence of a US action. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but there is more to the world than "America".

so when does give back=push out. YOU DIDNT WIN ANYTHING. ISRAEL WAS BEING KIND TO YOU.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', ' ')
2-My country has produced some of the most important people

yes good and intelligent people come from everywhere. lebanon, as far as i can tell, produces nothing else of value. that is why your country will face a major dieoff in the face of a peak oil crisis. probably though famine. your current casualties are tivial in comparison.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Jack » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 13:43:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Miki', 'T')here's a little problem though: all those people have lost their home. There's not much left of South Beirut and the South of Lebanon. At second thought, there is some left: tons of dead bodies buried under debris. The dead bodies buried in Dahie are starting to smell. People can't take their dead family from the debris because Israeli would murder them and bury them on top of their dead relatives.


Look at the bright side - this is, in essence, urban renewal. Older structures are cleared away, creating a shining opportunity to rebuild better than before. That should stimulate business activity and good levels of profits all 'round.

As for the smell - let me suggest strawberry incense. You'll find that the odor of strawberries overwhelms most odors. Given the temperature over there, I wouldn't imagine that odor would be a long-term problem.

In all things, you should look at the bright side. You'll be happier if you do.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby Miki » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 14:10:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'f')air enough we are all terrorists. fine by me. at least our terrorist have a military. i know they are not running like cowards, they are hiding themselves among the people like cowards.


1-Your terrorists are coward enough to throw bombs from planes at civilian neighborhoods. Their targets include ambulances, UN posts, refugee shelters, hospitals, churches, mosques....

2-Hisballah are not hiding among the people. Do you have any *proof* of that??


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')ve read every one of your posts. and i will reiterate, as long as hezbolah is in your country you will be a target for isreal.


I agree. It's called terrorism: the use of military means against civilians to achieve political goals.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 's')how how little you know about america. we have the highest population of jews on the planet. and they are a powerful social class. face it israel is our 51st state.


Good for you.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'q')uote="Miki"]If the US was in its way, they'd eager to wipe you out of the face of earth too.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i') feel like i should make a personal attack for the above statment

I'm sorry if the truth is unpleasant to you.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')mmigration is a common phenomenon among Third World countries. This is off-topic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')oint taken. but it is in direct conflict with your previous statment.


No, it's not. Let me know when there are more Arabs in Europe than in the Middle East.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 's')o when does give back=push out. YOU DIDNT WIN ANYTHING. ISRAEL WAS BEING KIND TO YOU.


That was OUR land to start with. Hello??

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')lebanon, as far as i can tell, produces nothing else of value. that is why your country will face a major dieoff in the face of a peak oil crisis. probably though famine. your current casualties are tivial in comparison.

You said it: "as far as you can tell"; the problem is that there's much more to reality than what you can tell.

1-Lebanon has plenty of water. Israel does not have water, so they need to steal our water.

2-Israel is trying to weaken Hisballah and destroy Lebanon so they don't have any opposition to subdue Syria and Iran. In other words, our country is important for your country and Israel to be able to steal the oil of the Gulf countries.
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Re: Map of Beirut, showing areas damaged in fighting.

Postby PrairieMule » Thu 27 Jul 2006, 14:35:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')Look at the bright side - this is, in essence, urban renewal. Older structures are cleared away, creating a shining opportunity to rebuild better than before. That should stimulate business activity and good levels of profits all 'round.

As for the smell - let me suggest strawberry incense. You'll find that the odor of strawberries overwhelms most odors. Given the temperature over there, I wouldn't imagine that odor would be a long-term problem.

In all things, you should look at the bright side. You'll be happier if you do.


Holy Joe!

Jack I'll be the first to acknowledge a set of twisted perceptions that fuel a ecclectic sense of humor but URBAN RENEWAL? Yikes!

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If you give a man a fish you will have kept him from hunger for a day. If you teach a man to fish he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
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