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THE Blackouts/Brownouts Thread (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby marko » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 12:13:14

Last night my neighborhood lost power from 8pm to midnight (4 hours). I had just gotten home to my roasting top-floor apartment and turned on the tiny air conditioning unit in my bedroom and the fan for the other rooms when, 3 minutes later, everything went off.

I live at the edge of a low-income district surrounded on 3 sides by very wealthy suburbs where houses start at $500,000. The power stayed on in the direction of the expensive suburbs. I can't get rid of the suspicion that the power company cut power to my neighborhood in order to be able to carry the load for the rich people around us.
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Dreamtwister » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 12:17:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('marko', 'I') can't get rid of the suspicion that the power company cut power to my neighborhood in order to be able to carry the load for the rich people around us.


But that would suggest the system is biased in favour of the wealthy! *gasp* Impossible! :roll:
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Leanan » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 14:32:59

I was hoping to be sent home early today (as sometimes happens when there's a power shortage). No such luck. But they have asked us to turn off the lights and turn up the thermostat. So it's unpleasantly hot and dark in the office today. :razz:
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby mentmush » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 14:57:50

i don't know if it's related, but i've been having a terrible time with the internet today. i read on another message board about other people having similar trouble. they attributed it to bush's press conference, which seemed implausible. i thought that it could be related to the power grid...
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby lateStarter » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 16:08:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', 'G')ive it a couple of days. Most electricity for AC is generated from NG in the US. Has no direct relation to oil. The general problem (as others have pointed out in other related threads) is that the grid is not equipped to handle the load. More outdated infrastructure. As long as enough NG is available, technically it should be no problem (ok, maybe lots of coal too....)

I'm sure it will be a problem soon. And we haven't even hit August yet.... Just think of it as a trial run....


According to the DOE:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ear-to-date, 50.6 percent of the Nation’s electric power was generated at coal-fired plants (Figure 1). Nuclear plants contributed 20.6 percent, 15.8 percent was generated by natural gas-fired plants, and 1.6 percent was generated at petroleum-fired plants. Conventional hydroelectric power provided 8.4 percent of the total, while other renewables (primarily biomass, but also geothermal, solar, and wind) and other miscellaneous energy sources generated the remaining electric power. Figure 2 shows net generation by month for the most recent 12-month period through April 2006.


Thanks for the actual 'facts' Kingcoal regarding how electricity is produced in the US! Is it possible to find out on a state-by-state basis where they get their electricity from, or is it a non-issue with power sharing across the grid (satisfy demand where required)?

I guess I should have stuck with my main contention that regardless of how the electricity is generated, the outdated infrastructure is not able to support the load. I seem to recall reading that the US electric grid (like many other countries) is long overdue for a major upgrade...
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Pops » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 16:20:15

I put up a couple links on the Review of the Olduvai Gorge thread, pg 19 regarding deregulation and the grid, http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic7291-270.html
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby turtleT » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 17:42:29

Surprised no one mentioned this yet. Denver is having trouble.
thousands without power
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'X')cel Energy said Monday night that 3,000 customers were still without power. However that is down from the original 12,000 customers without power Sunday evening.


Also of interest, from the same article:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')eanwhile, 45 coutnies in Colorado were declared agriculture disaster areas because of drought and searing heat.
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby skiwi » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 19:27:15

[url=http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10391980]Power outages hit New York subway, airport
[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')EW YORK - Searing summer heat wreaked havoc on travel plans for New Yorkers today as power outages shut parts of LaGuardia International Airport and the city's subway system during the morning rush hour.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ith temperatures at about 33.9 degC, Con Ed urged New York customers to conserve power and asked those working in office buildings to turn off unneeded equipment and air conditioning units in unoccupied conference rooms.
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Eman_0417 » Tue 18 Jul 2006, 19:48:59

From a quick overview of disscusion, seems like there are some problems all around the country and, suprise, suprise, not much in the MSM about it. I guess thats to be expected nowaday. The thread should possibly be dicussed more in the Olduvai Gorge thread. I know for me, living in a semi-rural community with water supplied by well, we are quite relient as of now on the grid. Hope to prepare for that soon.
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby lotrfan55345 » Wed 19 Jul 2006, 01:51:51

thankfully, I'm protected from power outages since I live in a wealthy suburb
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Bleep » Wed 19 Jul 2006, 07:07:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lotrfan55345', 't')hankfully, I'm protected from power outages since I live in a wealthy suburb
That's the Answer! More Suburbs! That will fix everything! :P
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Bleep » Wed 19 Jul 2006, 07:09:15

Long list of blackout events I gleened from news searchs:

http://community.livejournal.com/peak_o ... ew=3240734

I just don't have the desire to recode everything from HTML to BBCODE. Maybe I should look for a program to do that for me?
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Armageddon » Wed 19 Jul 2006, 09:17:52

i think they are hiding alot of them in the msm.
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby marko » Wed 19 Jul 2006, 09:28:36

My blackout night before last affected at least hundreds of people for several hours but was not reported in any of my local media. I doubt that my blackout (affecting hundreds) was isolated, because when I phoned the regional power company to report it, I got a recording stating something like "Crews are working to restore power in areas facing outages due to record electricity demand."

But not a word in the local media.
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby dooberheim » Wed 19 Jul 2006, 09:38:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', 'T')hanks for the actual 'facts' Kingcoal regarding how electricity is produced in the US! Is it possible to find out on a state-by-state basis where they get their electricity from, or is it a non-issue with power sharing across the grid (satisfy demand where required)?


Here is a table which gives a state-by-state breakdown of generation mix:

http://www.nei.org/documents/State_Elec ... Shares.pdf

I know there can be some state-to-state sharing of load, but in such a widespread heat wave I think everyone is pretty much in the same boat.

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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Eli » Wed 19 Jul 2006, 09:38:42

Well I can tell you for a fact that the power went out in different parts of North East Oklahoma.

We also have ample electricity supply in this area of the country. The problem is the infrastructure cannot handle the load required even if there is enough electricity production.

An interesting tidbit is that we received an automated call saying a truck had struck the power lines and that is what caused the power outage. But then I turned on the news to see that other communities in my immediate area had lost power during the day due to the heat. I think the power company was putting out some disinformation.

We will see more of this until at least Friday when the heat starts to break.
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Armageddon » Wed 19 Jul 2006, 15:26:51

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00921.html

Laguardia airport has power outages. msm missed this one too
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Grimnir » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 17:47:46

Well, big parts of Missouri and the area to the north are/were without power today due to some major storms that went through last night. Mine is back already; much sooner than I expected--gives me a little hope that the grid problems are at least partially surmountable. I kept hearing things explode all night long. Any electricians know what's going on when you hear BANG! (sizzle sizzle sizzle)? Is that power lines shorting out, transformers blowing, or what?
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby 0mar » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 18:18:09

St. Louis evacuated after blackouts

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13954663/
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Re: possible blackouts ?

Unread postby Pops » Thu 20 Jul 2006, 18:35:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grimnir', 'I') kept hearing things explode all night long. Any electricians know what's going on when you hear BANG! (sizzle sizzle sizzle)? Is that power lines shorting out, transformers blowing, or what?


No electrician but from my experience on the coast it’s transformers blowing from the line shorts and overloads.

Watched them pop like a dotted line coming up the valley into Ventura during that little Northridge shaker back when.

We're supposed to get a little action tomorrow night too, the cool will be welcome but not what you got.

Is everthing mostly intact at your place?
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