[grabby]

here is a video, one of the synmptoms of the desease called political micro management by ignorant university graduates.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4892548822

cut and paste if the link doesnt work.

here is the link
Farmers eating it.

We are not leading our country, we are destroying our farmers with really unworkable ideas. they must be paid more we must go to the farmers markets not to the supermarkets.

or you will have nothing in a very few years when the shipping stops.

[SoothSayer]

Globalisation will fail one day ... having left a trail of destruction in its wake.

[grabby]

Here is another real good one. take some time to watch it.

Why support local farming?

Our only surving resource will not be here if they don't make it through the peak.
once peak is over farming will be king just like the early americans.

Trade liberalizaton is a curse not a blessing.

Globalization backfired Trade

heres one one the poor that are going to eat gas costs first.
Poor paying for gasoline

[MrBill]

One medium sized barge on the Mississippi, the source of 60% of the US' grain exports to the world, can hold up to 870 farm trucks worth of grain. It is clear that rich world agriculture subsidies are hurting the developed world more than specialty imports to the USA. I am sure Nigerian and Egyptian cotton farmers would be thrilled if cheap exports of US cotton were not depressing world prices and making imported clothes from China less expensive than growing cotton and maufacturing at home. Ironical for a country that consumes 40% of the world's gasoline and 20% of its fossil fuels to be complaining about imports of food of which the USA is a net exporter or not?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') The United States remained the world’s most generous food aid donor, providing 4 million tons, or 49 percent of all donations. Overall donations from the European Union totalled 1.5 million tons, with the European Commission, Austria, Denmark, Netherlands and Sweden significantly increasing their support.


“Donations of food made the difference between life and death after the tsunami, the Pakistan earthquake and in Sudan, so we are extraordinarily grateful to all who gave last year,” said James T. Morris, Executive Director of WFP, which delivered 54 percent of the world’s food aid in 2005, reaching some 97 million people.


“Sadly, there is still not enough to meet the most basic needs of millions of individuals. When Official Development Assistance (ODA) is at its highest level in history, it is hard to understand why there still is not enough food aid to feed everyone who needs it. The number of hungry is rising by more than 4 million people a year in the developing world, even though poverty is declining. We need a food first policy,” added Morris.

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'O')ne medium sized barge on the Mississippi, the source of 60% of the US' grain exports to the world, can hold up to 870 farm trucks worth of grain. It is clear that rich world agriculture subsidies are hurting the developed world more than specialty imports to the USA. I am sure Nigerian and Egyptian cotton farmers would be thrilled if cheap exports of US cotton were not depressing world prices and making imported clothes from China less expensive than growing cotton and maufacturing at home. Ironical for a country that consumes 40% of the world's gasoline and 20% of its fossil fuels to be complaining about imports of food of which the USA is a net exporter or not?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') The United States remained the world’s most generous food aid donor, providing 4 million tons, or 49 percent of all donations. Overall donations from the European Union totalled 1.5 million tons, with the European Commission, Austria, Denmark, Netherlands and Sweden significantly increasing their support.


“Donations of food made the difference between life and death after the tsunami, the Pakistan earthquake and in Sudan, so we are extraordinarily grateful to all who gave last year,” said James T. Morris, Executive Director of WFP, which delivered 54 percent of the world’s food aid in 2005, reaching some 97 million people.


“Sadly, there is still not enough to meet the most basic needs of millions of individuals. When Official Development Assistance (ODA) is at its highest level in history, it is hard to understand why there still is not enough food aid to feed everyone who needs it. The number of hungry is rising by more than 4 million people a year in the developing world, even though poverty is declining. We need a food first policy,” added Morris.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('grabby', 'W')e are not leading our country, we are destroying our farmers with really unworkable ideas. they must be paid more we must go to the farmers markets not to the supermarkets.

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('grabby', 'W')e are not leading our country, we are destroying our farmers with really unworkable ideas. they must be paid more we must go to the farmers markets not to the supermarkets.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fergus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('grabby', 'W')e are not leading our country, we are destroying our farmers with really unworkable ideas. they must be paid more we must go to the farmers markets not to the supermarkets.

[Pops]

Can’t comment on the videos – on a dial-up.

But corn, bean and even wheat futures are up with 10 new ethanol plants coming on line each month this fall (read that somewhere but don’t have a link) but feeder calves are down. Simple reason is that it is going to cost more to finish those calves on grain at the feedlot. I have to think that hogs are the same – 50% of corn production goes to hogs and poultry I think.

Feeder calves are one of the last products the little guy has left and though the prices have been high the last couple years with big corn and bean yields keeping those prices down, the increased demand for grains could well squeeze out the little cow/calf operator.

Use to be everyone milked a few cows – but then came bulk pick-up that did away with the milk cans and the little guy.

Everyone raised a few hogs – they were called Mortgage Lifters, but then came the big processors and now its hard to find a sale barn that even runs hogs – producers are all on contracts for 1,000s of head a year so the little guy is out again.

Chicken is so cheap that it hardly pays to keep them – let alone sell any but the Martha Stewart variety, especially if they are confined.

Here in the Ozarks they used to grow lots of fruit, but then came refrigerated rail and irrigation in CA where the climate was better suited and the little grower was out. Of course now in Central CA where there used to be lots of canneries and fruit orchards there are miles of almonds (people want fresh fruit flown in from somewhere) so many almonds now that the price has tanked and the little guys are selling out.

Food cost is certainly at historic lows. Less than 10% of the average US families budget – it was at least 50% 100 years ago I think. Increases in the cost of energy will only consolidate the agriculture sector more and more as the little guy gets squeezed out and the benefits of scale and crop/climate suitability become even more important. As much of a Ludite as I am I hate to admit that the benefits of GPS, GIS, SVI, remote sensing et. al. are real. Unfortunately they can only be implemented at the largest scale.

The little guy that can make the change to niche, boutique type markets has some chance but again there is more than likely a region of the world that is better suited to growing whatever it is he moves to than his. And that region will be so saturated with that one crop that the input costs will be the lowest possible and the market eventually flooded with that cheap crop. The little guy trying to compete with the supermarket price of most anything – even if transport costs go up 10 fold, is guaranteed to lose.

Just lamenting the loss of the little guy I guess…

[TommyJefferson]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I')ncreases in the cost of energy will only consolidate the agriculture sector more and more as the little guy gets squeezed out and the benefits of scale and crop/climate suitability become even more important.

[Pops]

I think it will eventually, but I have no idea when.

Way back someone here presented info regarding cost per mile per pound for shipping stuff from China and it was tiny – I mean ridiculously tiny! So combine that with the economies of scale benefits and the cost benefit of the perfect crop/climate/specialized infrastructure combination like the Central CA almond region I always talk about and I just don’t know how far up the price will have to go.

Of course you have to consider that at the same time those transport costs are going up the majority of consumers will be dealing with it as well. They more than likely will be eating somewhat lower on the food chain and those boutique growers of free range chickens and baby boc choi will be in an even worse situation than now.

I think that way down the line there will again be small local producers, but they will be largely starting from scratch since the old small farms will have been either absorbed into the larger ones or subdivided.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I') think it will eventually, but I have no idea when.

Way back someone here presented info regarding cost per mile per pound for shipping stuff from China and it was tiny – I mean ridiculously tiny! So combine that with the economies of scale benefits and the cost benefit of the perfect crop/climate/specialized infrastructure combination like the Central CA almond region I always talk about and I just don’t know how far up the price will have to go.

Of course you have to consider that at the same time those transport costs are going up the majority of consumers will be dealing with it as well. They more than likely will be eating somewhat lower on the food chain and those boutique growers of free range chickens and baby boc choi will be in an even worse situation than now.

I think that way down the line there will again be small local producers, but they will be largely starting from scratch since the old small farms will have been either absorbed into the larger ones or subdivided.

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')Way back someone here presented info regarding cost per mile per pound for shipping stuff from China and it was tiny – I mean ridiculously tiny! So combine that with the economies of scale benefits and the cost benefit of the perfect crop/climate/specialized infrastructure combination like the Central CA almond region I always talk about and I just don’t know how far up the price will have to go.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'W')hat will you do with your economy of scale than?

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', '
')And thats why Peak Oil may INTENSIFY globalization on the downslope, all the way until only military jets are allowed to burn petroleum.

[clueless]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') agree with this.

I’m not really sure how much land ADM owns, Cargil I think is the most vertically integrated from ground to table.

In ADMs case I think they do all they telling, from what they want to what they’ll pay to what interest you pay on their loan - the farmer does all the work, tries to pay the mortgage, makes all the improvements and takes all the risk. The big corps investment is in the processing end - you know, where the money is.

But at any rate your premise still holds. The thing that I am most concerned with is the loss of those little farms and those little old farmers. An existing place, no matter the condition is a heck of a lot easier to get going on than a bald piece of ground. Its one of the reasons I like Missouri – it is hard to merge little into big due to the geography but there are still lots of pockets of good land and little old places.

I mean the system is really so unimaginably huge, well capitalized and mostly unseen – not to mention taxpayer subsidized, that it boggles the mind.

The analogy isn’t turning the Titanic before you hit the iceberg, its more like dismantling the Titanic and building a million little sailboats while continuing your forward motion!

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'I')n ADMs case I think they do all they telling, from what they want to what they’ll pay to what interest you pay on their loan - the farmer does all the work, tries to pay the mortgage, makes all the improvements and takes all the risk. The big corps investment is in the processing end - you know, where the money is.

[foodnotlawns]

Masanobu Fukuoka's book "One Straw Revolution" has a chapter titled simply "Commercial Agriculture Will Fail."

I don't have it in front of me, but what he says is that physics will eventually trump economics (of course), but in the mean time, Commercial Agriculture is causing a lot of pain. One example he cites is oranges -- all of a sudden the Japanese all want perfect, unblemished oranges, and this caused great economic misery to Japanese orange growers.

My wife manages the finances, and I can't withdraw 20 bucks from the ATM or buy a packet of seeds from Agway without accounting for it to her, so I got a pretty good idea of the costs of my farming hobby; almost no expenses, and definitely running in the black as far as saving money.

That's right, I am finding that the cost of my hobby farm is negligible. There are some up-front, one time expenses, for example, the cost of gas to haul horse manure to my property. Other than that, I've spent less than 100 dollars, and I've already produced about 500 worth of top quality food (red potatoes, squash, radishes, onions, garlic). The tomatoes and cukes aren't in yet, but there will be hundreds of pounds of cukes, eggplant, beets, and thousands of pounds of tomatoes and white potatoes.

Commercial farmers make a calculation that they can borrow 50k and earn 100k, but they still borrowed 50k and that's the problem.

DO NOT BORROW MONEY. Any farming business plan that entails borrowing money is a bad plan. Scale back to a smaller farm, until you don't have to borrow money.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '[')At what point will the Powers That Be mandate things of importance (food and vital services) to receive fuel subsidies?

[Ludi]

I don't think most people understand how very few farmers there are in the US, let alone how few small, diversified farmers of the kind mentioned above, who used to feed the nation, the world. Big cities, one million people, were supported by this kind of farming prior to industrialization of farming and the Green Revolution.

Now only about 2% of the US population farms, their average age is mid to late fifties (near retirement age). There's very little base from which to expand this demographic, people will have to start from scratch, with little or no background in diversified farming and with next to no chance of learning from someone who is already doing it. I just hope the local agriculture "trend" gets going soon.....