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Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Which big oil company is behaving most responsibly?

Poll ended at Sat 05 Aug 2006, 00:44:25

Exxon
2
No votes
Chevron
14
No votes
BP
7
No votes
Total
1
No votes
Shell
1
No votes
 
Total votes : 25

Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby LadyRuby » Thu 06 Jul 2006, 00:44:25

Which of the five "big oil" companies are behaving most responsibly in regards to oil depletion? Years from now, when we look back, which company will we be able to say was clearly trying to do the right thing, as much as they could? I have my opinion, but I'm curious what others think.
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby whereagles » Thu 06 Jul 2006, 06:32:46

u forgot to add "none" :)
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby Doly » Thu 06 Jul 2006, 09:53:43

I think BP are doing best in this respect. Not ideal, but they act like they are clearly aware of the issues and they're clearly trying to diversify into renewables.

And I've put my money where my mouth is. I got a few shares of BP.
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 06 Jul 2006, 10:12:03

Sorry....exactly what does doing something about Peak Oil have to do with a company acting "responsibly". All of these companies are publically held....they work for the shareholders not some greater glory of humanity. If the majority of shareholders jump up and down and say....oh you need not to be an oil and gas company anymore, now you need to be an alternative energy company...fair enough that will happen. Outside of that anything they do that is not in the best interests of the shareholders (and believe me they are mostly interested in making money either through shareprice appreciation or dividends) is irresponsible.

I think an analogy might be that if you want to stop the Cocaine trade from Colombia the only sure way is to lock up all of the users.
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby CARVER » Thu 06 Jul 2006, 11:28:30

What I expect from those oil companies, is that they report their reserves and what they think they will be able to produce in the near future. I think most are heavily buying back shares, so those shareholders will have the money and can decide for themselves how to invest that. That way they could reduce the company (following the depletion of their reserves) untill it no longer exists, while new energy companies start to grow.

Everyone with money can decide how to invest it. To invest in alternatives, you don't need petrodollars, any dollar, euro, yen, etc. will do.
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby whereagles » Thu 06 Jul 2006, 11:47:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 't')hey [oil companies] work for the shareholders not some greater glory of humanity.

That is very, very true... but now that you mention it, I have a question for you.

Suppose an oil company has to take a decision which is in the interests of the shareholders, but against the interests of humanity. Do you think it's ethical to put the interest of shareholders above those of humanity?
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby LadyRuby » Thu 06 Jul 2006, 22:23:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'S')orry....exactly what does doing something about Peak Oil have to do with a company acting "responsibly". All of these companies are publically held....they work for the shareholders not some greater glory of humanity. If the majority of shareholders jump up and down and say....oh you need not to be an oil and gas company anymore, now you need to be an alternative energy company...fair enough that will happen. Outside of that anything they do that is not in the best interests of the shareholders (and believe me they are mostly interested in making money either through shareprice appreciation or dividends) is irresponsible.

I think an analogy might be that if you want to stop the Cocaine trade from Colombia the only sure way is to lock up all of the users.


Rockdoc, another thing to keep in mind is that they are in the business of selling their product to customers. If the companies and their shareholders could care less about society, why do they all have "social responsibility" and "corporate citizenship" programs and initiatives?

Anyway, I'm a consumer and I make choices about who I do and don't want to give my money to.
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Fri 07 Jul 2006, 11:03:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')uppose an oil company has to take a decision which is in the interests of the shareholders, but against the interests of humanity. Do you think it's ethical to put the interest of shareholders above those of humanity?


You need to be more specific as decisions like this are often in the very grey areas. Companies are demanded by their shareholders to act responsibly but at the same time are expected to add value. If either of these tasks are not served shareholders speak out by selling or as Karl Icahn did with KMG...orchestrate a palace coup.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ockdoc, another thing to keep in mind is that they are in the business of selling their product to customers. If the companies and their shareholders could care less about society, why do they all have "social responsibility" and "corporate citizenship" programs and initiatives?


I did not say they could care less about society, but they are there for a purpose which is to make money for shareholders, they try to do so in a responsbile manner. Their main purpose however is not to preserve oil for generations to come, or hold back production to save it for the next generation etc. The CSR programs are in place to help attract "ethical" investment funds who look specifically at the CSR rankings of various companies. My experience is that most oil and gas execs behave responsibly with regards to human rights etc.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')urthermore we do now (in liew of charter revocations and criminal prosecution) responsibility to make moral buying decisions. Such actions shut down apartheid and could shut down any company


in which case you're making your voice known as a shareholder. Fortunately for those of use who still want to make some money in the market there is still far more shareholders willing to support oil companies who find oil, produce it economically, keep finding and development costs under check, maximize profits, control costs etc. Nowhere in that equation does managing depletion in a "responsible" manner come into play, especially if by doing so it adversely affects the companies bottom line. The whole point is to produce as much as you can as fast as you can, especially given the tight margins the oil industry has traditionally experienced.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nyway, I'm a consumer and I make choices about who I do and don't want to give my money to


good for you....and it's good that you have choices. Not exactly sure however that you can be sure who is "depleting responsibly" and what the heck that means in the first place.
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby DarkDawg » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 14:16:46

Sorry, I have to agree with rockdoc. It is not necessary to be socially responsible to make money. If tobacco companies were to act in the "interests of humanity," they would cease to exist. Yet many investors own tobacco stock in the form of mutual fund shares without knowing, caring or without having much choice in the matter. Same goes for big oil or any successful company. We own them because they make us money, period.


LadyRuby wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Anyway, I'm a consumer and I make choices about who I do and don't want to give my money to.


Do you really? Do you only buy food that doesn't have plastic packaging of some kind? If not, how do you know a big oil company or some company that you have chosen not to give money to wasn't involved in the production of that plastic? How was the food delivered to the store? Did it involve oil? How was the food grown? Is it organic? Did they use bio-diesel powered tractors to harvest it? What type of energy was used to bring it to you? Do you know that a large tobacco company also produces many popular food products some of which you may have in your kitchen right now? Exactly what is the basis for your "choices?"

My point is you can't simply choose to which company you give your money because you may not even know that you are doing it in the first place.

Being a consumer puts you in the thick of the problem and yes, your choices will ultimately be the solution, but first you need to understand that it is not so simple.

There is myriad questionable social tactics interwoven among the production and delivery of consumer staples today. Just look at Walmart. It's one of the biggest if not THE biggest company in the world and uses highly questionable political manipulation in state and local governments to get around zoning laws and health insurance premiums, yet nobody complains because they have cheap t-shirts made in sweatshops. Almost every product/service you buy has some kind of oil dependency and even more social dependencies that are not even considered when you are at the cash register. If you say that you never shop at Walmart, then maybe I would believe that you are making responsible choices with your money.

As for big oil, it's almost impossible to vote with your wallet. Who knows what oil company supplied the energy or oil or NG that powered or manufactured or delivered some aspect of the nicnac ("Made in China" of course) that you just bought at the dollar store?
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby MacG » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 15:03:58

Dead simple: Chevron

Have you seen the site? www.willyoujoinus.com ? The TV and print ads? They spell it out beyond any doubt. But nobody is listening! Nobody WANT to listen!

Hahaha! You go on and blame the corporations, good luck! They only provided the stuff we all wanted and begged for.

Chevron at least TRIED to ask: "Is this what you REALLY want?" The resounding answer is: YES! And more of it, please!

Hahaha!
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 19:29:16

Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

I believe that this questions needs to be refined.

1. Define "responsibly". Responsible to whom? The shareholders? The customers? The employees? The bond-holders? The citizens of the United States?

A modern corporation has a responsibility to provide the maximum possible profit at the minimum possible cost in order to enrich the owners of that corporation. That is the stated goal of nearly every corporate charter. I could argue that the company that provided the highest return on investment for shareholders during the historical period known as "Post Peak Oil" was the most responsible. This corporation will have followed the laws of its charter and made the people who matter to the corporation happy.

Now I know that this is not what you intended to say.

I believe you meant to say this:

"Which oil company will be regarded as having done the most to lessen the impacts of Peak Oil for society in general?"

If we can all agree to accept the above question as the topic of debate, we can stop arguing about to whom a corporation must benefit.

If we decide to continue debating the questions of corporate-persondhood and corporate responsibility, LadyRuby's question will be lost and buried in page after page of Society Versus Free Capitalism rants.

My answer to LadyRuby's question is Chevron. Based on the information available to me, Chevron appears to be most interested in informing the populace about life after oil.
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby greenworm » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 23:48:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ead simple: Chevron


I don't think so, if you look at their behavior concerning their patent on NiMH in relation to peak oil it definitely looks like profits are way more important than averting disaster. :lol:
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby greenworm » Tue 11 Jul 2006, 23:04:39

Oh, and I forgot to mention that Chevron has a bit of a waste management problem in certain parts of the world namely Ecuador. I give them my vote for last. :lol: Responsible my ass.
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby LadyRuby » Tue 11 Jul 2006, 23:38:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I') believe you meant to say this:

"Which oil company will be regarded as having done the most to lessen the impacts of Peak Oil for society in general?"



Yes, Tyler, I'd say that's basically what I was asking. Or another way of asking, which big oil company tried to level with "us" and warn us of this very serious problem of oil depletion.
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Re: Which big oil company acting responsibly to peak oil?

Unread postby Doly » Wed 12 Jul 2006, 08:28:26

I agree that Chevron are doing a great marketing campaign. But, from the point of view of having projects on alternative energies and alternative fuels, I'm still with BP. They seem to be doing a lot more.

And they did the "Beyond Petroleum" campaign a few years ago... It's not your fault that it didn't make you wonder at the time why a big oil company would want to go beyond petroleum.
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