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A question - a question that needs answering

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.
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Re: A question - a question that needs answering

Unread postby thuja » Sun 09 Jul 2006, 12:54:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', ' ')

1. relocate if you can



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'H')ere are my priorities:


2. Get out of the city. ( I just moved from San Diego)



Matt and MQ- since you folks have a lot of influence- please be very careful in endorsing the "get the hell out of the city" notion. There are many reasons why this could be a very bad idea in years to come.

1- There are much fewer jobs in small towns and the country. There will be even less in years to come.

2-In the country you have to commute and get around using...fossil fuels. Again, bad idea.

3- You may find community in a small town but be very isolated in the country. Better to have close friends and family nearby to support each other.

4- Businesses will go bankrupt everywhere but in small towns and in the country that will be devestating economically and in practical terms. It will be harder to find stores that sell groceries, hardware, applicance, places to get spare parts, plumbing, etc etc.

5- Unless you have a lot of spare cash, young people will have to get a large mortgage to live out there in a small town/country. When the economy goes south, they're screwed and will default.

So yes, some cities will be horrible places to live...Las Vegas (tourism, leisure), Miami (GW, tourism), Detroit (Bad cars), Houston (Incredibly energy dependent)...

But cities will still have more jobs than the country. And...they won't set up the breadline out in East Jesus.
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Re: A question - a question that needs answering

Unread postby MacG » Sun 09 Jul 2006, 13:01:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'I')t may not be logical or true but what it does do is open the mind to the possibility of simply taking what the blameworthy tribe has and making it our own.


For millions and millions of years, it has indeed been the very most logical thing to hack up the competition if starvation is threatening. And the logical time to start is when you start to suspect that starvation will hit, not when you are already weakened by it. The old programs are there for sure. And there is nothing to boost group morale and hacking frenzy as beeing attacked.

The big question (which will be answered on our watch) is how much society and culture have managed to modify the old programs. This society-thing is no chickenshit - it helped western societies to hack up virtually every primitive society on earth.

Oh, I think fairly large geographical variations can be expected also. Some extremely densly populated places would be high on my list for expected hackfests.
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Re: A question - a question that needs answering

Unread postby MattSavinar » Sun 09 Jul 2006, 13:53:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MacG', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'I')t may not be logical or true but what it does do is open the mind to the possibility of simply taking what the blameworthy tribe has and making it our own.


For millions and millions of years, it has indeed been the very most logical thing to hack up the competition if starvation is threatening. And the logical time to start is when you start to suspect that starvation will hit, not when you are already weakened by it. The old programs are there for sure. And there is nothing to boost group morale and hacking frenzy as beeing attacked.

The big question (which will be answered on our watch) is how much society and culture have managed to modify the old programs. This society-thing is no chickenshit - it helped western societies to hack up virtually every primitive society on earth.


Given these trends have been in place for hundreds of thousands of years, are seen throughout nature, and are what produced in the first place, I'd say not much.

I just hope to be whereever the least amount of hacking is going on.

Best,

Matt
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Re: A question - a question that needs answering

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 00:36:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '.')..I just hope to be wherever the least amount of hacking is going on.

Since none of us know how this is all going to play out, we have no idea of where that may be.

That's my basic problem with "planning" for what is coming. Why bother when we don't know what to plan for?
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
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Re: A question - a question that needs answering

Unread postby rwwff » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 00:46:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '.')..I just hope to be wherever the least amount of hacking is going on.

Since none of us know how this is all going to play out, we have no idea of where that may be.

That's my basic problem with "planning" for what is coming. Why bother when we don't know what to plan for?


Remember, LONG emergency, right? You've got to survive the first part of the squeeze to even be in the game when the hacking starts. Hopefully, as the years go by, there'll be more evidence to observe so we can make better guesses where the hacking might be the worst; then quietly slip away...
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Re: A question - a question that needs answering

Unread postby Jacksoncage » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 15:31:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'M')att, Let's look at this from a slightly different angle. What I'm thinking is something like political or human rights activism. That's where it's possible to initiate change for others not for yourself. Look at the enormous influence people like Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Jr have had on human rights. Don't you think that these people had a positive influence on society? As far as PO is concerned, then I would look to people like Amory Lovins in your country. He has influenced government energy policies not only in your country but many others as well.


Follow the money. Lovins is funded by the Pentagon and several Fortune 500 companies. The former CEO of Bechtel wrote the forward for his book, "Winning the Oil Endgame."

Lovins' is a tool for the military industrial complex and, as he has with many others, he's duped you.

Best,

Matt


Oh, please. Matt Simmons is an avid supporter of President Bush, so if he isn't "on the payroll" and isn't a tool for your "military-industrial" complex, then I don't know who is. Every time he mentions peak oil, his wallet gets a little fatter. Same goes for T. Boone "no more than 79 million barrels a day" Pickens.
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Re: A question - a question that needs answering

Unread postby jato » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 20:00:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')h, please. Matt Simmons is an avid supporter of President Bush so if he isn't "on the payroll" and isn't a tool for your "military-industrial" complex, then I don't know who is.


So if 10 years from now, if it turns out that Matt Simmons was correct, does that mean Peak Oil was a conspiracy caused by Bushco ?

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Nobody can predict the Peak Oil date. However, the "peak oil prophet" who comes the closest to predicting reality wins the Peak Oil Price Is Right game.
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Re: A question - a question that needs answering

Unread postby Jacksoncage » Mon 10 Jul 2006, 20:27:57

Of course not. But if anyone is going to question Amory's motivations for his beliefs, the same standard should be applied to the people you agree with (i.e. Matt Simmons).
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