[lutherquick]

For years now we keep hearing about the concept of dual-use technologies.
It's part of the American Technology Alert List (TAL), which tries to figure out which items used for civilian use could quickly be used for military use.

This is the main contention between the US and Iran.

Aluminum tubes in Iraq where thought to be usable for enriching uranium. When in fact they were just simple tubes for sounding rockets. Russia sold rocket engines to India a few years ago, but America was worried those engines would be used for missiles (never mind the US bid for the same contract, that's another issue)... The Americans claim Iran might use it's enriched uranium not for generating electricity but for nuclear weapons. Well, technically, hell, a screw driver could be used in a baby milk factory or in making nuclear weapons.

The concepts of dual use was eventually replaced by the stronger words of "WMD", for a better and more effective marketing methodology, as our American group think adjusted it's propaganda machine and as the world evolved in a post 9/11 world. WMD become more direct.

Yet, there is one dual use effort that is the most animus. There is one dual use effort that is suspect and far more hypocritical, and out right evil. And this is the dual use of "democracy". Democracy in it's fundamental forms has a noble purpose. But today, America is using democracy as an excuse to take down peaceful nations in an attempt to gain access to energy deposits or infiltrate their population, brain washing that population for increasing America hegemony which in the end, subsidizes the US economy, and trickles said subsidy into American energy consumption. Similar to how the Bible warns that the next devil may actually be cloaked in an image of Christ. Using democracy for hegemonic efforts, is "dual use".

Dual use is reflected in Bush's speeches where he talks about liberating some nation, about spreading democracy, yet in his round table meetings, with the doors closed, they speak of reusing that effort for energy access. NGO, World Bank, IMF, Nato, Nafta, all of these are institutions, designed to be cloaked in the name of democracy while their true agenda is energy access. Encircling Russia or financing coups in Venezuela, against the whishes of the majority, American dual use is beyond evil.

Dual use as in hypocrisy and double standards. Where Floridian prisons force woman into prostitution for prison official profits, or Gitmo, or Abu Garib human rights violations, all of these counter what the US talks about. But in fact, bring to light America's ultimate concept of "dual use". Americans, as individuals do not reflect such evil, but the institutions are distorting the purpose and the virtue of the word "democracy".

If any institution on Earth is more guilty of dual-use, it's the United States government. Today, Americans look like snake oil salesmen, used car dealers peddling democracy when everyone sees the deception. America talks peace but does war, all cloaked in democracy for oil.

[ColossalContrarian]

IMO the most powerful example of dual-use for War/Peace in America today is the media. Used to “inform” the public and as one gentleman on the O’Rielly Factor put it “Foxify” World events. How many homes in the US don’t have a TV? What a great tool for American droids –I’ll admit, I’m still a bit of a droid myself

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'F')or years now we keep hearing about the concept of dual-use technologies.
It's part of the American Technology Alert List (TAL), which tries to figure out which items used for civilian use could quickly be used for military use.

This is the main contention between the US and Iran.

Aluminum tubes in Iraq where thought to be usable for enriching uranium. When in fact they were just simple tubes for sounding rockets. Russia sold rocket engines to India a few years ago, but America was worried those engines would be used for missiles (never mind the US bid for the same contract, that's another issue)... The Americans claim Iran might use it's enriched uranium not for generating electricity but for nuclear weapons. Well, technically, hell, a screw driver could be used in a baby milk factory or in making nuclear weapons.

The concepts of dual use was eventually replaced by the stronger words of "WMD", for a better and more effective marketing methodology, as our American group think adjusted it's propaganda machine and as the world evolved in a post 9/11 world. WMD become more direct.

Yet, there is one dual use effort that is the most animus. There is one dual use effort that is suspect and far more hypocritical, and out right evil. And this is the dual use of "democracy". Democracy in it's fundamental forms has a noble purpose. But today, America is using democracy as an excuse to take down peaceful nations in an attempt to gain access to energy deposits or infiltrate their population, brain washing that population for increasing America hegemony which in the end, subsidizes the US economy, and trickles said subsidy into American energy consumption. Similar to how the Bible warns that the next devil may actually be cloaked in an image of Christ. Using democracy for hegemonic efforts, is "dual use".

Dual use is reflected in Bush's speeches where he talks about liberating some nation, about spreading democracy, yet in his round table meetings, with the doors closed, they speak of reusing that effort for energy access. NGO, World Bank, IMF, Nato, Nafta, all of these are institutions, designed to be cloaked in the name of democracy while their true agenda is energy access. Encircling Russia or financing coups in Venezuela, against the whishes of the majority, American dual use is beyond evil.

Dual use as in hypocrisy and double standards. Where Floridian prisons force woman into prostitution for prison official profits, or Gitmo, or Abu Garib human rights violations, all of these counter what the US talks about. But in fact, bring to light America's ultimate concept of "dual use". Americans, as individuals do not reflect such evil, but the institutions are distorting the purpose and the virtue of the word "democracy".

If any institution on Earth is more guilty of dual-use, it's the United States government. Today, Americans look like snake oil salesmen, used car dealers peddling democracy when everyone sees the deception. America talks peace but does war, all cloaked in democracy for oil.

[lutherquick]

Fergus,

Well, here's the problem... I'm an American, and I agree, you have the right to protect America. But keep your shit hooks off of other countries and other people's resource. Just because you ran out of beer (oil) doesn't give you the right to take my fvcking beer out of my house and my fridge. If you tolerate the NRA, if you believe in fundamentals of the American constitution, even the concept of the American militia, then you will appreciate that I will be standing in your light and breathing your air when you are in my house.

Chances are my wife and I will have our children in Belarus, because US citizenship for them seams hopeless with each day. So if you reach for my beer, then you are taking my children's beer. You have no chance. You need to travel 12k miles, and we will be waiting. No way you are taking it. Go fvck someone else.

And this is what Putin recently warned about the clash of cavitations. I'm a little sarcastic here, by making my point. Maybe you think killing is going to work, but my gut feeling is you will be as successful as Bush is in Iraq. I'll bet the Iraqi resistance is going chace the Americans away.

America has every right to protect herself, but things are getting out of hand. There will be world war for sure. America is out of beer. Who's fault is that? Iraqi children's, evidently.
Understand Fergus, so far, recently, America has attacked nations WITHOUT wmd. Wait till America attacks a country without 10 years of attrition from a economic sanctions.

Looks to me like America is really at the end of her ropes if people are ready for this gamble. And I really don't think America will win. Hell, I'm game, lets take a chance, lets gamble America. I don't like the idea, but hey, if the majority of this American gang is ready to lose all by going to the next town gang, then Bring it on !

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'S')o far, recently, America has attacked nations WITHOUT wmd.

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'S')o far, recently, America has attacked nations WITHOUT wmd.

[lutherquick]

Fergus,

There are savages, and then there are civilized people.
You have no respect for human life nor do you respect other people's property. You are a savage.
For this reason other governments "must" marshal their own fringe radicals and order them to execute folks like you.
For peace, people like you need to be bumped off.

Ya know, if you itemize all the recent wars, one common denominator keeps coming up, America....
People like you will have their heads blown off, then hopefully the sensible Americans will want peace.

And I don't know what you are referring when you talk about us peaceful humans sitting in bunkers. You are the one sitting in the bunker, you are the one sleeping with one eye open.
And by the way, hope all you want, hope as much as Bush "hopes" today. Hope is for bunny rabbits.

Fergus, don't worry about it, you won't be here.

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'F')ergus,

There are savages, and then there are civilized people.
You have no respect for human life nor do you respect other people's property. You are a savage.
For this reason other governments "must" marshal their own fringe radicals and order them to execute folks like you.
For peace, people like you need to be bumped off.

Ya know, if you itemize all the recent wars, one common denominator keeps coming up, America....
People like you will have their heads blown off, then hopefully the sensible Americans will want peace.

And I don't know what you are referring when you talk about us peaceful humans sitting in bunkers. You are the one sitting in the bunker, you are the one sleeping with one eye open.
And by the way, hope all you want, hope as much as Bush "hopes" today. Hope is for bunny rabbits.

Fergus, don't worry about it, you won't be here.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'S')o far, recently, America has attacked nations WITHOUT wmd.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sabibaby', 'H')ow many homes in the US don’t have a TV? What a great tool for American droids –I’ll admit, I’m still a bit of a droid myself

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'Y')a know, if you itemize all the recent wars, one common denominator keeps coming up, America....

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'F')ergus,

There are savages, and then there are civilized people.
You have no respect for human life nor do you respect other people's property. You are a savage.
For this reason other governments "must" marshal their own fringe radicals and order them to execute folks like you.
For peace, people like you need to be bumped off.

Ya know, if you itemize all the recent wars, one common denominator keeps coming up, America....
People like you will have their heads blown off, then hopefully the sensible Americans will want peace.

And I don't know what you are referring when you talk about us peaceful humans sitting in bunkers. You are the one sitting in the bunker, you are the one sleeping with one eye open.
And by the way, hope all you want, hope as much as Bush "hopes" today. Hope is for bunny rabbits.

Fergus, don't worry about it, you won't be here.

[lutherquick]

Fergus,

Like I said, you are out of beer (oil). Go ahead, reach for my beer, step into MY home, try it. Belarus, Russia are my family. Once I married my wife, it all changed. So... You need to get into boats, aircraft, you need to bring food, munitions, you need to attack, then occupy, and finally TAKE. Go ahead !! The energy expended, and EROEI for the defenders is a hell of allot less than your effort. And you not using nuke, I'm sure of that. Nato? do you really think you can muster up a great story, another delusion about wmd, or the war on terror to attack around the Caspian? Right, and Enron is profitable.

Nope... peak oil is going make things mighty entertaining.

Fairness has little to do with this. The amount of energy you will blow reaching for our beer is more than you will gain. Nope, half way across the Atlantic you will run out of gas and sink. And the moment Mexico stops exporting oil, very soon, then you will be busy spreading democracy by building boarder fences in CA, NM and Texas...

[Fergus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'F')ergus,

Like I said, you are out of beer (oil). Go ahead, reach for my beer, step into MY home, try it. Belarus, Russia are my family. Once I married my wife, it all changed. So... You need to get into boats, aircraft, you need to bring food, munitions, you need to attack, then occupy, and finally TAKE. Go ahead !! The energy expended, and EROEI for the defenders is a hell of allot less than your effort. And you not using nuke, I'm sure of that. Nato? do you really think you can muster up a great story, another delusion about wmd, or the war on terror to attack around the Caspian? Right, and Enron is profitable.

Nope... peak oil is going make things mighty entertaining.

Fairness has little to do with this. The amount of energy you will blow reaching for our beer is more than you will gain. Nope, half way across the Atlantic you will run out of gas and sink. And the moment Mexico stops exporting oil, very soon, then you will be busy spreading democracy by building boarder fences in CA, NM and Texas...

[Zentric]

Have we just caught a glimpse of how the US is going to end? A bunch of proud Patriotic crybabies sitting around with nothing to do but to wimper how nobody lets us steal their oil anymore?

I figure the patriotic thing would be to just turn on ourselves then. The infrastructure is nearly in place. Should be pretty.

[lutherquick]

Fergus,

This is personal... peak oil will be personal with everyone. I'm not aiming at you. But you represent a TREND. The people of Ukraine, right now need to live like sh!t, in Georgia, same thing. Because their leaders bought America's delusion.

People are dieing all over the world as peak oil matures.

The way I look at it, is like this. Americans consume 8 litters per person per day of equivalent oil. The average European is about 4, Belarus might be about 2.5, yet the average across the world is down around 1.7

So, this is where you are wrong. Just because America runs out of oil, doesn't mean the rest of the world does. That's not going to happen. In addition, dollar hegemony has distorted the competitiveness of the global economy.

Fergus, you need to worry very much about America, not other places. Belarus, Russia will be just fine. Ukraine and Georgia will remove it's latest increase of capital flight, crime and corruption due to American interference.

Like I said, we are running out of beer. How would you like it if I ran out of beer, and reached into your house? You would "lock and load". Seams to me, you are watching too much FoxNews and watching our young soldiers BEFORE an IED rips them apart... Too many Americans watch video games and think if this all comes crashing down that they can just push "PLAY AGAIN".

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fergus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lutherquick', 'S')o far, recently, America has attacked nations WITHOUT wmd.