[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gridlock', ' ')I don’t deny it’s a huge problem. But what motivates collective action is not, IMO, what you described in the population reduction thread.

[Gridlock]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd therein lies the problem. What we need to do does not square with what we can or will accept.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gridlock', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd therein lies the problem. What we need to do does not square with what we can or will accept.

[Gridlock]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey need a new 911/Pearl Harbor to reignite the masses to support more aggression. Look at the hammering of the NYT and the recent capture of the terrorists wann-a-be's. Flag burning admendments, etc.

Do you wish to bet that they were not told to trot out their best domestic-terror-possiblibilty case for PR purposes with these 7 guys?

[rwwff]

Peak Oil doesn't have a solution. It is a condition, and it demands we either adapt to it, or die trying; and it doesn't care which of those two is what happens. So the thread itself is a bit misleading. Kinda like asking, "do you have a solution for green chloriphyl."

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'R')esource Wars under the guise of a War on Terror. And even that is backfiring if you look at the latest polls.

[grabby]

The only solution for peak oil this year is to pump more oil next year.

To drop oil prices all you have to do is pump so much oil that all the reserves are fullall the tanks are full and all the refineries are full and all the car tanks are fulll and the price will be 25 cents again.

The more you pump the cheaper it gets.

The less you pump the more expensive it gets.

I think that is right anyway.

so if half the world stops using oil we can have cheap gas again.

So if most of the Large cities would suddenly stop using oil it would become cheap again.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gridlock', 'A')nd you are seriously positing that the US will wage a war with China over it?

[Gridlock]

Interesting. I've only read the summary you provided. A couple of things I wondered:

1. I didn't see a mention of China, still think this is unlikely, but I don't deny it could escalate. Perhaps it is referring more to places like Nigeria?
2. Did they release this for public consumption? If so I wonder why.
3. They draw alot of personnel from the Pentagon from what I gather. More of Rummy's cronies?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gridlock', 'I')nteresting. I've only read the summary you provided. A couple of things I wondered:

1. I didn't see a mention of China, still think this is unlikely, but I don't deny it could escalate. Perhaps it is referring more to places like Nigeria?
2. Did they release this for public consumption? If so I wonder why.
3. They draw alot of personnel from the Pentagon from what I gather. More of Rummy's cronies?

[Gridlock]

OK here is my problem: TPTB must realise that going to war with China, or any other major power over oil, leads to the exact situation that you are trying to avoid. Oil price spikes and shortages at best, (if not all-out armagedonn). As this will happen anyway, what is the point in expending precious resources? Also, they must realise that oil is going to run-out regardless, so unless you address that then even if you win WW3, you’ve still lost. So I think whilst the times are still good, countries are doing what they can to extend their influence, in preparation for the down-turn, so that their exposure is as limited as possible, and alot of this is sabre-rattling and bargaining for position.
I’d be surprised if the US and China were to go at it, I think there are alternatives for them (not just energy-wise)...

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gridlock', 'O')K here is my problem: TPTB must realise that going to war with China, or any other major power over oil, leads to the exact situation that you are trying to avoid. Oil price spikes and shortages at best, (if not all-out armagedonn). As this will happen anyway, what is the point in expending precious resources? Also, they must realise that oil is going to run-out regardless, so unless you address that then even if you win WW3, you’ve still lost. So I think whilst the times are still good, countries are doing what they can to extend their influence, in preparation for the down-turn, so that their exposure is as limited as possible, and alot of this is sabre-rattling and bargaining for position.
I’d be surprised if the US and China were to go at it, I think there are alternatives for them (not just energy-wise)...

[Gridlock]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he same arguments have been made as to why Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito and Hideki Tojo would not wage war.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gridlock', 'W')hat I’m wondering, is whether by putting this out in the public domain, it’s purposely meant to send a message to certain countries, who are being a bit un-cooperative.

[Gridlock]

"The US is well on it's way to becoming a pariah nation."

Not everywhere I think. India might be quite pleased as their demands to produce as many nuclear weapons as they want have been granted of late.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gridlock', '"')The US is well on it's way to becoming a pariah nation."

Not everywhere I think. India might be quite pleased as their demands to produce as many nuclear weapons as they want have been granted of late.

[Gridlock]

Not seen that. This is what I'm wondering: If there will be wars I see 4 major players. One is off-limits. Pick one of the remaining three and what would be in their interests.

[grabby]

If you can get along without modern conveniences such as power and gasoline, you will do better than others like those who live in the city.

You have to say:
How can I survive best without grocery stores, gasoline, oil, food and electricity?
How can I take care of myself without doctors or hospitals.
How can I prevent a lawyer coming along and taking over my community again?

I suggest in your community there is an article stating no leaders.

It was heard that one of the kedenies once said: "I have to go into politics or I'll have to learn to work for a living."

the EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) in politics is about -250.

[greenworm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')he EROEI (energy returned on energy invested) in politics is about -250

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('greenworm', 'B')TW, it is well known that the entire US car fleet can be replaced by electric/biodiesel cars.

[greenworm]

Not true, in fact there is technology out there that exists which stores all the wasted AC energy(we waste a lot), there is enouch coal to last quite awhile. This is simply not true. It is true that the infrastructure does need to change as a lot of it is outdated. You can hack a prius to get 100 mpg, just imagine a car that gets a 100 miles per charge coupled with a biofuel engine. There are presently electric cars albeit small ones that eclipse 120 miles per charge. You could use hemp since it has a eroei 4 times greater than corn. Plus, you don't need land, all you need is sunlight and water to grow it. What you don't have in this nifty equation is the political will and quite frankly I don't think you'll get it until it serves TPTB.