by ubercynicmeister » Sun 02 Jul 2006, 20:01:02
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'G')ood points, uber, but is one man really to blame?
No, that was not my point: Winston Churchill was simply trying to save the British Navy some money, but his decision was the most profound as it had huge Unintended Consequences, namely Peak Oil.
In that sense we're all to "blame", both for simply not being inquisitive about the who's, the where's, the why's and the what's of our present Society.
My point is that there's an awful lot of "well, it must be the Baby Boomers who are to blame for this (etc etc)". It is not: the decisions were made back when the Baby Boomers were infants or even before, when the Baby Boomers's parents were infants.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow can we look at this objectively? The war in Viet Nam was to resist Stalin and Pol Pot, in the final analysis.
No, that's what you've been taught to believe. The Viet Nam War was the result of the idiotic French being given an easily avoided flogging by the Nazis in the Second World War. As a result of France's humiliating capitulation, Japan demanded that the Vichy Govt (nominally their "allies") hand over stewardship of then Indo-China to Japan, who proceeded to treat the in-country French as brutally as they treated the Vitenamese.
Uncle Ho Chi Minh was one of the few to stand up to the Japanese (the French certainly did not), and the CIA's forerunner supplied Ho Chi Minh with arms, training and communications all throughout the Second World War. Indeed, we now know that Ho Chi Minh was so impressed with the US that he wanted to frame the Post World War's Vietnam's Consitution on the US Consitution (obviously adapted for language differences).
You see, Ho Chi Minh remembered the promise given by the Allies in 1942 that if any of the former Colonies (now occupied by Axis forces) stood up to the Axis forces, they'd be granted independance in the Post War period. This was part of the reason why Hi Chi Minh fought on the US' side, against Japan. This 1942 promise was promptly forgotten Post 1945.
Also, part of the reason was that Viet Nam and China have traditional enmity and they have gone to war in recent times (after the Viet Nam war was over) over their border.
At the end of the Second World War, then President Truman created the CIA, and they were supposed to handle the details of the Post War SE Asian "affairs". They collectively didn't.
Ho Chi Minh sent letter after letter begging the US' help in securing Viet Nam's Independance. The CIA did not even pass them on. The whole of the Viet Nam war need never have been, if only the CIA had done it's damn job.
But it didn't.
Ho Chi Minh was offered help by the Soviets (who had fallen out with the Chinese) against the French and Ho Chi Minh took the offer up.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')That was the paradigm of the last century. Pol Pot got to do his thing because of American lack of resolve.
Lack of American resolve? Heck, Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge (the word Khmer and the word "kharma" are closely related: both mean "fate") were supported by the CIA, because they were against the Vietnamese army! Why the heck d'you think Pol Pot committed governmental suicide by invading Viet Nam? The US wanted them to, to carry on the Viet Nam war by proxy!
The Chinese supported Pol Pot, too, so they had money coming from the Capitalists AND the Communists. For the same reason that the CIA supported them: they were against the Vietnamese.
Of course, the Vietnamese beat the Khmer Rouge hollow, so the US found itself supporting another losing, utterly bloodthirty regime of despots. The lesson for China was learnt, but the CIA never learnt.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')If we had stood firm that never would have happened. But Americans are decadent and fun loving, as Hitler and Stalin and Bin Laden have noted.
Decadent and fun-loving? Mebbe. Tricked into the Ultimate Honey-Trap might be a better way of putting it. Speaking of which, I presume you knew about the South Vietnamese govt's habits of taking the deadbodies of the GI's and removing their internal organs, then stuffing the hollowed-out corpse with drugs and importing it into the US?
The real irony is that the Counter Culture's drugged out hippies were being supplied with "hash" (etc) from the hated South Vietnamese and the transport medium was the even more hated American "Military Industrial Complex".
Most Aussies know about it. It seems an awful lot of Americans don't.
Like I said above: tricked into the Ultimate Honey Trap.