Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

THE Slavery Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Wall Street Journal Promotes Slavery by Corporate Elite

Unread postby shakespear1 » Wed 28 Jun 2006, 08:25:21

Nice analysis. Fits nicely in the category of Great Propaganda that is fit to print. Further evidence for why people are confused.

Here in Poland the mantra has been "What a great deal it has been to join the EU". Current great news as a result is "There is not enough nurses in Poland". Huhhhhhhh, where did they go and why did they leave?

So are things still great since the country has joined the EU? Not if you land in the hospital. You better travel to British or Irlish hospitals to see those nurses you can't find here.

It is all one big joke and the only ones laughing are driving BMW and Landrovers :-)
Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire

"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."

Alan Greenspan
shakespear1
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri 13 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Wall Street Journal Promotes Slavery by Corporate Elite

Unread postby Zardoz » Wed 28 Jun 2006, 09:41:49

A Hall of Fame rant!

Seriously, this may be the finest rant ever posted here at Peak Oil. If there's a better one, I'd love to see a link to it.

The contradictions in that WSJ story are hilarious. Those guys don't know which straw to grasp at first. The terrible point of it all is that there are plenty of hawkish assholes in this country who are more than willing to send in the Marines for oil. No wonder Chavez is working to form a global anti-American alliance. Standing alone, no small country has a chance against us. Unified, they present a force to be reckoned with, one that may make thugs like Lugar think twice about use military force.
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
User avatar
Zardoz
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6323
Joined: Fri 02 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia

Re: Wall Street Journal Promotes Slavery by Corporate Elite

Unread postby mrniceguy » Wed 28 Jun 2006, 10:53:33

Congratulations, an excellent piece. It would be great if Bhushan Bahree and Chip Cummins could read it for themselves.
User avatar
mrniceguy
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue 23 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Nottingham UK

Re: Wall Street Journal Promotes Slavery by Corporate Elite

Unread postby LadyRuby » Wed 28 Jun 2006, 11:14:16

Wow that was a long one. Nice but depressing.
User avatar
LadyRuby
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1177
Joined: Mon 13 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Western US

Re: Wall Street Journal Promotes Slavery by Corporate Elite

Unread postby clueless » Wed 28 Jun 2006, 12:17:52

How does this fly in the face of the WSJ ??

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

.........
IV.

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

V.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

VI.

Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.

Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.

Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war -- as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years -- I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.

Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road........
User avatar
clueless
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue 13 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Just the right place

Re: Wall Street Journal Promotes Slavery by Corporate Elite

Unread postby Kylon » Thu 29 Jun 2006, 09:47:35

I don't like how he/she's against the power obtained by the "scientifictechnological elite". I mean honestly, some one will fill that power vaccum, and if the sheeple won't, then would you rather have the "consumeristic corporate Slave Labor Exploiting Political Pirate Elite"? I personally would rather have a bunch of scientist or mad scientist governing our civilization than a bunch of greedy make-cash-now-think-consquences-later corporate CEO elite scumbags.

Honestly, how have the technological elite caused the problems? The technological elite are the only ones who can/will save society, not those jerk-off Megacorporations, or the common man/woman himself/herself, but the scientist or engineer. Ultimately the intellectia will be the only thing that has a chance of saving this civilization, that or blind luck.

Oh course, I may be biased, I'm really tech oriented, working on an engineering degree, and I'm a natural engineer, but my points still stand.
User avatar
Kylon
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 836
Joined: Fri 12 Aug 2005, 03:00:00

could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby sert » Mon 28 Aug 2006, 09:40:25

if worst comes to worse and peak oil does bring about massive damage to the economic structure and social fabric of society, then is it possible to assume that people would reignite the concept of slavery inorder to get cheap energy.
as abhorant as it is, it seems to make sense. some people will be force to be slaves once again, this time, it wont be black or white or watever but anything goes, the strongest will win.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sat 21 Mar 2009, 19:16:58, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Slavery Thread.
User avatar
sert
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri 25 Aug 2006, 03:00:00

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby TT » Mon 28 Aug 2006, 11:00:14

Nah - serfdom is cheaper.
User avatar
TT
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 278
Joined: Mon 12 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby napoleon » Mon 28 Aug 2006, 11:06:29

It will invent a new concept of 'the disposable human'.

Those unfit ffor service will be exterminated systematically.
User avatar
napoleon
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat 05 Aug 2006, 03:00:00

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby Atlantean_Relic » Mon 28 Aug 2006, 11:07:50

But I'll need blind people for my giant hamster wheel powered cranes.
Was a long and dark December
When the banks became cathedrals
And the fog
Became God
User avatar
Atlantean_Relic
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Mon 24 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Location: North of Id, west of Oz, and infront of the damned rabbit

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby Pretorian » Mon 28 Aug 2006, 18:14:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TT', 'N')ah - serfdom is cheaper.


And free labour is even cheaper than serfdom. Why do you think slavery/serfdom were abolished almost everywhere? The differences between slave and a free man are:
1) an employer of a free man doesn't have to invest funds to get labour;
2) an employer of a free man doesn't have to take care of welfare and medical conditions of his employees;
3) a free man gets old and loses his ability to work at his own cost;
4) slaves run away, free men sleep under the door to get work which will let them sleep in a bunk and eat junkfood.
Now, lets just look at banal calculus.
a 20 years old slave in 1850-60 had a price tag of $1000, golden dollars that is. How much do you think cost to build all that infrastructure, to house and nourish this slave, to pay for emergency medical care, rags to wear, guard him ets? How much it will cost to maintain? Meantime banks were paying $40-50 per year for a 1000 bucks deposit. I dont know for sure costs of living in 1860th but i am pretty sure $5 a month could get you a bunk bed and more rice&pig feet than you can eat. Why pay more? A "free man " has nowhere to run from his hunger and homelessness. And if he gets old , sick or dies , you 'll just hire another one. Who cares?
Pretorian
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4685
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Somewhere there

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby Jack » Mon 28 Aug 2006, 18:54:04

I think it's a function of labor available versus price.

If we are reduced to warring bands, and slavery requires nothing but capture of enemy personnel - and, we further assume that we have a need for labor - then slavery makes sense.

On the other hand, Pretorian's fine analysis will apply if we have to buy the slaves.

I would also point out that if we own slaves, we can enjoy low-cost exponential growth of the labor force. 8)

But yes, I think we'll see some form of slavery. If nothing else, slave owners will desire the feeling of power it would provide.
Jack
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4929
Joined: Wed 11 Aug 2004, 03:00:00

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby thuja » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 15:52:21

It was discovered long ago that it is much cheaper to hire the cream of the crop, pay them next to nothing and dispose of them as needed. Hispanics have developed into the "serfer" class. Right now I can go down to inner city and "purchase" a man for labor for 8-10 dollars an hour. I can ask that men to dig, cut, mow, shingle or wash my car if I want him to. I owe him nothing more. With that money he is lucky to pay for cramped outer suburbia accomodations and enough to pay for food and a few meager possessions. They have no chance of mobility in our society. If they are lucky they have children or grandchildren who work their butts off at school to join the professional class and creep into the middle class.

As professional jobs dry up, we will revisit the Grapes of wrath, where we all will compete with each other, scab and ask the lowest wage for any available work, no matter how demeaning it is. Slavery? Who needs it? Serfdom is much easier.
User avatar
thuja
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sat 15 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby EndDays » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 18:39:11

You're asking the right question.

I've often wondered why people don't realize that PO could be the dream scenario for the ruling elite in this world. Perhaps that's why little to nothing is being done to slow or prevent a hard crash from happening.

Are we being setup? I suppose that all boils down to what you think lives in the hearts of those running this world.

Good or evil?

ED
Have you ever thought about God and eternity? What will you say when you stand before our Creator after you die?

www.livingwaterscanada.com/good
User avatar
EndDays
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 04:00:00

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby rogerhb » Wed 30 Aug 2006, 23:12:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'G')ood or evil?


No, just bad.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
User avatar
rogerhb
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4727
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Smalltown New Zealand

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby mmasters » Thu 31 Aug 2006, 00:31:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', '
')Good or evil?

Definitely a general lack of responsibility for mankind.
User avatar
mmasters
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun 16 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Mid-Atlantic

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby seldom_seen » Thu 31 Aug 2006, 00:40:35

Slavery never went away. They're just better at hiding it now.
seldom_seen
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2229
Joined: Tue 12 Apr 2005, 03:00:00

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby Novus » Thu 31 Aug 2006, 19:06:56

Bring back slavery? Well it never completely went away. It still exists in parts of Africa.
User avatar
Novus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2450
Joined: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Re: could peak oil bring back slavery

Unread postby jeezlouise » Thu 31 Aug 2006, 20:26:35

How do you "bring back" something that, worldwide, is more prevalent than ever?

Make no mistake: slavery did not end with the Emancipation Proclamation, although the Powers that Be would have you imagine that it began and ended here in the US.

On that note... who here believes in the possiblility of debt slavery? That is, forcing citizens here who are the most in debt into work camps or military service to settle up? What's the historical precedence of this? And how would a rapid devaluation of our currency affect it?
User avatar
jeezlouise
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2006, 04:00:00

Slavery/Indentured servitude

Unread postby eXpat » Sun 18 Feb 2007, 12:08:33

I remember when watching pirate movies how everybody will clear up taverns when the recruiters of her Majesty's Fleet went looking for drunkards to serve, or in historical/SF books how people was watchful of slave traders. Well, if things like this, and this happen right now, what will it be in a few years?

More links for your perusal: here, here, and here.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sat 21 Mar 2009, 19:18:01, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Slavery Thread.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw

You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.” Ayn Rand
User avatar
eXpat
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3801
Joined: Thu 08 Jun 2006, 03:00:00

PreviousNext

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron