[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', '[')b]I think AC has allowed us to extend into overshoot more than what would otherwise be possible. The older generations will often point out how they grew up without AC. The one point that seems to miss then is that they were young and fit back then and so was most of the country. For someone who is young and fit AC is pure luxury but this nation of fat old people it has become a necessity. America was a much younger country 50 years ago. America also thinner and in a lot better shape 50 years ago too but now more than half the country is overweight. India is able to support its population in the tropics because they are a young and mostly thin people. Losing the AC could knock ten maybe even fifteen years off of Western Life Expectancy.

[Liamj]

AC is a handy camoflage for crap house/urban design too. The newer suburbs across southern Aus. have bigger houses on smaller blocks, with big windows, no eaves and few trees. So you've got leakier houses with less shade, often uninsulated too. Makes for a cheap-to-build house that demands AC to be habitable thru Aus summers.

Shame is, many 19th century anglo settlers were smart enough to throw away their preconceived ideas about houses and build appropriate to the climate, with big wide verandahs right around the house, attached vine pergolas, narrow windows etc. But we just get dumber with each generation. A tiny minority of people even get the idea of closing up a house at the start of a hot day to keep it cool. Then theres another of those brilliant ideas that anglo's will never accept because a foriegner thought of it - siesta.

[0mar]

I think a lot of you are missing the point. Heat/temperature isn't the issue, it's humidity. A 100 degree day is completely bearable with zero humidity. A 85 degree day is completely unbearable with 70-80% humidity. A healthy individual has a very real risk of moderate to severe heat stroke doing any sort of moderate activity (aka a jog, slow bike riding).

[gg3]

"How can you tolerate that heat?!"
"Oh yeah?! How can you tolerate that cold?!"

What we're seeing there is the simple fact that most of the people, most of the time, prefer the climates in which they grew up and/or in which their predecessors and ancestors lived. They know the hardships of their chosen region and feel those are less daunting than the hardships of other regions; and they know the coping methods that are particular to their chosen region.

---

Personally I'll take the Northeast or the Northwest.

Here in the Bay Area, we become climate wimps, living in a narrow temperature range kept so by the proximity of the ocean and the prevailing winds. Though, San Francisco at 40 degrees Fahrenheit, with a fog blowing in, tiny droplets of water on your face and hands, cooled further by the constant breeze, can feel colder than Manhattan at 28 degrees Fahrenheit, dry, and with a similar breeze, even when dressed the same for both conditions (long underwear, bluejeans, long-sleeved shirt, jean jacket, knit cap, i.e. standard nondescript functional clothing).

Here in Oakland & nearby: recent temps in the 80s, humidity moderate, indoor temps in the 80s. We can expect to see temps occasionally in the 90s during the summer.

What I do to keep cool: A combination of fans from 4 watts (very small desk fan) to 100 watts (in the hatch to the attic), used selectively along with open windows at relevant times of day. Wear nothing but underwear or shorts around the house all day. Drink cold stuff such as icewater. For a very quick cool-down, spray water mist from a squirt bottle on exposed skin and sit in front of or under a fan (4 watts or 16 watts as needed). With all that, I can work comfortably even when it's 85 degrees in here.

That combination of attic fan, minimal clothing, small fans pointed at you, cold water to drink, and a spray-mist squirt bottle, can probably work with temps up to 100 degrees.

I don't see any reason why women can't run around topless indoors if living alone or with their partners or a couple of close friends. Or at least, wear a bathing suit. If it's acceptable on a generic public beach, it ought to be acceptable at home. And if it's acceptable in beachfront towns (i.e. going to the store in one's bathing suit) it ought to be acceptable in inland towns & cities.

Some clothes designer is going to make a decent fortune with the right product line of something very similar bathing suits for men and women, with a moderate style that isn't suggestive, and with practical features such as pockets. These would be using relatively light fabrics that you could wear in the water (or wear during a quick one-minute shower for the sake of getting soaked and cooled down), or could be worn over conventional underwear if desired.

Here is an opportunity for sensible downtown property owners and companies: Modify the downtown dress code to favor cooler styles, run the building without AC, and pass most of the savings through to the tenants. Companies that were willing to adopt the cooler dress code and locate into those buildings would see an immediate savings in rent, which is their primary overhead cost. This translates to competitive advantages all'round, increased profits for building owners, and increased profits for businesses located in those buildings. All it's going to take is for someone to have the guts to do it the first time.

Note about beverages: Anything sweeter than apple juice (e.g. grape juice, sodas, milkshakes, etc)., and anything with other carbohydrates and/or alcohol (beer etc.) burns more water than it contributes, so in fact it will increase rather than decrease thirst. We think a cold soda or a cold beer is quenching our thirst because of an odd miswiring in the brain that confuses "cold + liquid" with "hydration" (and even with "adequate oxygen to breathe," that is, people drink more liquids when the air is stuffy).

The human brain is not very well wired to detect dehydration as such. And dehydration is a major cause of heart attacks during heat waves. So no matter what else, you have to drink plenty of plain water or at most mildly sweetened beverages in order to stay hydrated.

[rwwff]

On the drinking thing, I don't think its the brain that is miswired, it is simply poorly trained. When people mildly exert themselves, then go in and drink a cold, sweetened soda they get a double pleasure reinforcement of the temp and the sweet; nothing bad happens to them as a result, so there is no negative.

When I go out and exert hard in 90F+ and 80% humidity, water literaly pours off of my body, and my thirst-o-meter at that point unmistakeably demands water or unsweetened iced tea. Once I've gotten a liter or two of water down, then my brain permits fizzy drinks; but not until. I think this is simply the result of deliberate training over the years. A few years ago I stopped drinking sugared sodas and begin drinking aspartame soda; no difference in the response though, which suggests to me that its a learned refinement to whatever the initial thirst trigger is.

[PeakOiler]

Here in Central Texas where temperatures can get as warm as 95F/35C in April all the way to late September, (in fact, we had two days in April over 100F/38C this year,) and often weeks over 100F, (over 45 days in a row without any rain and over a week of 100+F temps a couple years ago,) living w/o A/C is possible, but it sure is a nice luxury.

I use central A/C, but only sparingly. (e.g. electric bill for May was $39.74 for 207 kw-hrs.)

One of the ways to deal with the heat is with a small above-ground pool. I paid about $350 for one about 10 years ago. (4.6 m dia, 1 m depth) Those wimpy electric water pumps that come with them are junk and don't last long, so I also bought a $200 "hot-tub" pump. I think I've gotten my money's worth in spite of ongoing maintenance costs, (chlorine tablets, two replacement liners.) I only run the pool's water pump a couple of hours per month, most cleaning is performed by siphoning out debris from the bottom and skimming the floating debris.

Main point being that getting wet can replace the use of A/C.

Another tip: An unheated water bed will suck the heat right out of you.
I've often woke up "freezing" in the summer.

Thin people certainly have an advantage compared to overweight or obese people when it comes to dealing with heat.

Edit was to correct what the weather can be like here in the south. For some reason the previous edit didn't get through. Sorry 'bout that.

[mpg]

Hey people, we've become climatically dull. One reason I like New England is that the temperature can vary over 100 degress throughout the year. The reason for widespread airconditioning at work was to keep the machines running, not the workers. So many people have become used to a narrow range (say 60 to 72 degrees) If you're checking out this site you must a little concerned that the gas pump, lights or ac may not always be on. This should be one of the easiest things to adapt too. Liquids, fans, better design, siestas, moving slower all should do the trick.
In the meantime try cutting back a degree a week until you get used to it.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '.')..An America without AC would indeed be an America with a smaller population and an entirely different way of life.

[gg3]

If I say, "In the past I could do X, Y, and Z, but today I cannot do X, Y, and Z," you would say that I'd either become weaker (if it was a physical task), stupider (if it was a mental task), or lazier (either physical or mental task).

"We got along without AC in the past. We cannot get along without AC today": That's isomorphic with the case above, and the logical conclusion is that we've become weak, stupid, lazy, or any combination thereof.

"If we do that now the economy will disintegrate virtually overnight." That seems to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the economy has gotten weaker, stupider, and/or lazier.

Know what? I don't think it's about "can't." I think it's mostly about "won't." That's not just laziness, it's willful laziness. Last time I checked, that was the sin of sloth. Remember "the wages of sin are death"...? The wages of collective sin will be dieoff.

And oh by the way, let's build those hundreds of gigawatts of nuclear, wind, solar, and let's tighten up efficiency standards all'round. But not so we can sloth our way to dieoff; rather so we can buy some time to get stronger, smarter, and more industrious. (Realistically that's not going to happen, so batten down the hatches and prepare for dieoff.)

[rwwff]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'K')now what? I don't think it's about "can't." I think it's mostly about "won't." That's not just laziness, it's willful laziness. Last time I checked, that was the sin of sloth. Remember "the wages of sin are death"...? The wages of collective sin will be dieoff.

[hippiegunlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '
')
To you posters who have talked about escaping to the basements in your homes, or cooling off in the evening in the shade or your back yards, will you please explain to us how people will get any work done at all during the day, in their offices, for the four or five months a year when the heat and humidity makes their workplaces unbearable?

Sure, we got along without it in the past, but we did it by slowing to a crawl and not getting much work done. If we do that now the economy will disintegrate virtually overnight.

[EnergySpin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', '
')
I'm on my 3rd summer without AC and what i find most disturbing are the peoples reactions to it. They are completely & utterly dumfounded that i'm not using it.

[Troyboy1208]

Wow this is a great thread. I will throw my two cents in. As a native Floridian I dont mind the heat. Yea I sweat but like others have said in this thread, they would rather sweat than freeze. I bought a house with trees all around it to help with the temperature. In the morning hours my house is heavily shaded and in the late afternoon as well. I cant do much about the middle of the day but then i usually take a nap then . I use a programable thermastat that works quite nicely. Basically when the sun goes down i cool the house to about 75 but during the day time its set at 79. Im constantly tweaking the settings. Basically from three in the morning till about 1200 the ac does not run. It only works hard in the evening bringing the temperature down. With no sun to fight agains it doesnt take long to cool off. I feel ive done the best i can with the situation. My power bills here in Orlando Fl rarely exceed 150 dollars even in august. Where i work is ridiculous though. As a teacher my high school is an ice box. I dont see how my school can complain about not having enough money when their power bill for the year exceeds 450 000 dollars!! Some of the largest hogs of electricity are schools where there are no trees and overly cooled classrooms. Whats even more crazy is that in an attempt to cut their consumption they turn off the ac from 11 at night till 6 am. Sometimes when i come in in the morning my posters that have been taped up will have fallen to the floor because of the buildup of humidity. All the doors to the new building I am in had to be replaned because they had warped due to the humidity. Beaurocratic inefficiency at its finest.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Troyboy1208', '.')..Whats even more crazy is that in an attempt to cut their consumption they turn off the ac from 11 at night till 6 am. Sometimes when i come in in the morning my posters that have been taped up will have fallen to the floor because of the buildup of humidity. All the doors to the new building I am in had to be replaned because they had warped due to the humidity...

[FishAreBest]

In terms of energy requirements, does anyone know how dehumidification compares with refrigeration?

If the actual problem is the humidity, wouldn't it be better to deal with that?

[basil_hayden]

Refrigeration is part of dehumidification, hot wet air past cool coils, air cools, moisture drops out, get it? One is a byproduct of the other. The only other way to dehumidify that I'm aware of is chemically - as in dessicants.

[lateStarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Troyboy1208', '.')..Whats even more crazy is that in an attempt to cut their consumption they turn off the ac from 11 at night till 6 am. Sometimes when i come in in the morning my posters that have been taped up will have fallen to the floor because of the buildup of humidity. All the doors to the new building I am in had to be replaned because they had warped due to the humidity...

[emailking]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Troyboy1208', '.')..Whats even more crazy is that in an attempt to cut their consumption they turn off the ac from 11 at night till 6 am. Sometimes when i come in in the morning my posters that have been taped up will have fallen to the floor because of the buildup of humidity. All the doors to the new building I am in had to be replaned because they had warped due to the humidity...

[Ibon]

I lived 10 years in South Florida and the subject of AC was one that I was obsessed with! I have a few things to add to the discussion.

First, we have become much more weak and intolerant than in the past. But AC has become neccesarry in places like South Florida because the microclimate in the urban areas have become much hotter along with poor building design. AS most floridians are recent immigrants I got my first clue of these changes talking to a plant nursery man who lived 50 years in Davie Florida who told me that when he was young the area was not so hot since there wasn't so many paved roads and dense housing. These vast areas of concrete are like heat sinks. A rain of short duration in the summer that is followed by the sun creates a sauna of steam rising off all the pavement and roofs of buldings that makes it unbearable. Someone above also mentioned how tokyo has a microclimate from all the AC units discharging heat. That is also an issue in dense areas of FLorida/

If you are lucky enough to live in a house in Florida constructed before the 1930's you will see that they were designed to maximize breezeways and often placed in the shade of a ficus or live oak hammock. Today they drain the everglades and urban sprawl suburbs sprout like mushrooms out of barren land. Houses are not designed for breezeways and most inhabitants never open their windows. Many office buildings have no windows that open.

Air conditioning is critical to reduce humidity not just to cool. If you have a leather jacket in a typical modern florida home that is not ventilated and you shut of the AC it will grow mildew within a month. All electrical appliances and office machines would not run at elevated levels of humidity which promotes the growth of fungus.

I was determined to not use AC when I lived in South FLorida. My family was the last to turn it on when summer advanced and the first to turn it off in the fall but it was still neccessarry in the heat of the summer for reasons outlined above.

Most people living their are blindly addicted to AC and have disconnected themselves from their natural environments. It would be January, maybe 65 degrees outside at night, we would have all our windows open and enjoying the breeze cooling down the house but there was one main problem. We would have to listen to a chorus of 50 AC compressors in our neighborhood from all the stupid neighbors who just automatically kept their AC running year round. Many of them told me they were afraid of bugs or thieves, that's why they kept their windows closed!

The biggest perversion of people living in FLorida is that they were attracted to live there because of this promise of tropical paradise but once they get there they insulate themselves in artificial environments and don't even connect with their local habitats. Many are so removed that they don't even realize that those globular orange round things hanging from their trees are actually edible (oranges)!

If Florida lost AC you would see the fastest demographic change in population in the history of the U.S. as people would leave in droves.

Increased fossil fuel costs for electricity generation will force FLorida with only one viable scalabe option. Nuclear energy.

[Ibon]

I forgot to add soemthing. My work when I lived in South Florida involved travelling extensively to Latin America so I was constantly comparing the climate in South FLorida to other tropical places I was visiting. I was always surprised that most places in the new world tropics were not nearly as hot and most didn't require air conditioning. The reasons were as follows:

1) Carribean island countries had trade winds that cooled things down in the summer. South Florida has no trade winds.

2) Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Caracas, Quito, La Paz are all at higher elevations. Lima, Santiago, Buenos Aires had climates more like San Diego or meditteranean.

3) South Florida is surrounded by oceans and in between are vast water filled everglades. The relative humidity is therefore constantly higher.

Panama City in Panama Central America was the place that most resembled South Florida with unbearable heat aggravated by vast concrete.