Where will you go when TSHF?

by **Kylon** » Fri 23 Jun 2006, 23:14:53

I have decided that nobody will post in a complex topic(or read for that matter) even if it could be beneficial to them, unless they believe they have something to say/contribute possibly.

So I have removed my previous post, on how to construct oceanic dwellings, efficiently, cost effectively, and sustainably, and I am replacing it with a "Where will you go?" post.

The question is this, where do you believe you will go post peak?

What country ect...

I am planning on building an oceanic dwelling, and living in a oceanic city/farm, with cheap renewable energy, and plenty of food, and with proper means, a great supply of fresh water.

What country do you think you are going to live in, and what will you do when idiots start trying to raid you, or governments start nationalizing your stuff for "The greater good"(which means, "For the politician bastards and their goons and supporters"). Or when mindless idiots start bothering you, demanding you give them your stuff, or they will attack?

Where will you go, that won't either have people there, waiting to rob you, and or a government ready to tax you into oblivion(rob you).

Please post your replies.

by **lotrfan55345** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 01:37:08

Paris

Le Printemps (mall), movie theatre and the main Louis Vuitton store on the Champs-Elysees.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q ... 54159&om=1

by **Kylon** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 01:38:25

I had a very long, well thought out post on how to build an oceanic dwelling, cheaply, efficiently, comfortably, and economically. How to make income from the place(large amounts of income), how to construct one using few resources and time, how you could use the tidal energy as a source of power.

All that and more, but it had to be ruined by people ignoring me!

You may say, "But there is nobody out in the ocean, who will you trade with ect...", and that's exactly my point, nobody is out there, meaning that there are very few people who will(or have the ability in comparison with the population at large) to rob me out there, meanwhile I could make large profits from selling a refined grade of algae based ethanol, which would grow much, much faster than any kind of ethanol grown on land, and would be much cheaper, as well as not taking up any living space/land for traditional farming.

Meanwhile you could still grow traditional crops on cheaply made artificial land, and harvest the crops and all that.

I posted info on this, BUT I WAS IGNORED! ALMOST NOBODY ELSE WOULD READ MY POST!!!

by **PenultimateManStanding** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 02:10:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'A')re you going to grow gills like Kevin Costner in "Waterworld?"

by **Grifter** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 08:06:08

Its possible everyone who viewed your original topic was impressed and didn't respond 'cause they thought it was a good idea. Many only respond when they disagree with something. Anyway I didn't read the original, been away.

I'll stay and fight wherever I am if TSHTF. There's nowhere I can go where the government can't rob me. We are trying to move to a less populated area at the moment though but only because that will be a more pleasent place to suffer in some of the scenarios that I imagine.

You'll get problems with pirates and emperors at sea btw, so I would think of becoming one of them. If it feels right for you, do it, if you stay on land where you gonna get the freedom to go where you want to go for example. Everyones in the shit so just choose where you'd like to wallow.

by **TheTurtle** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 08:42:04

I'll stay put during the initial phase. It will take time for the prevailing paradigm to erode away and I believe that I have positioned myself to be as secure as one can be during that transition.

When it all goes very badly, and the die-off is well underway, I am prepared to disappear into the deep wilderness with the rest of the tribe. I prefer life in the woods to life in the ocean. Obviously, YMMV.

The important thing, as I see it, is to know that TS is definitely going to HTF and to prepare yourself mentally for that reality. Mental flexibility and a handful of low-tech skills will allow one some manuverability during the times to come, I think.

by **skeptic** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 08:57:59

Re: Where will you go when TSHF?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kylon', '
')I am planning on building an oceanic dwelling, and living in a oceanic city/farm, with cheap renewable energy, and plenty of food, and with proper means, a great supply of fresh water.

by **seahorse** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 09:58:07

Kylon,

I agree with Skeptic, that you should make your move now not later. It takes time and resources to build a project like you envision. You also need to allow time to work out "bugs" in your plan. So, sounds like an interesting idea, so begin now not later.

I'm like Turtle and some of the others. I plan on waiting it out "here" until something breaks.

by **eastbay** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 11:24:11

Where will we go?

We recently decided that 'here' was a very poor place to be when the oil started to become scarce so a few weeks ago we moved to 'there'.

Let me describe 'here'. 'Here' has virtually no rain for six months from May to October with no lake or river nearby and it gets very hot for those six months. The soil 'here' is clay and growing anything required bringing water from far away and annual soil replenishment. Watering the small garden and yard was costing over $100/mo and it was apparent that water would become scarcer and costlier. Fresh water never flows within several days walking distance.

Furthermore, the town existed only due to cheap and plentiful oil. In 1935 there were only a few hundred people living 'here' and today there are 250,000 in the valley. It is supported today by high-tech and the usual wide variety of auto-related businesses. Soon, trucking in food and other basic supplies is going to be impossible. The town is located 45 miles from the nearest seaport, a four day walk. The only crop local crop is grapes for wine. It was obvious and clear to us that 'here' existed only because of oil, and oil was soon to become scarce. Housing 'here' is also very expensive and gaining title to our small property was impossible. So we were fortunate to sell for a nice profit and now own our home 'there'.

So we moved 'there'. Let me briefly describe 'there'. 'There' is 1.5 miles from a large (mostly) unpolluted river. It rains year-round. Blackberries grow wild and into our backyard from the bordering greenspace. The garden soil can be adequately maintained by basic composting. We're about 15 miles from a major port and a frieght rail line runs through town. Farms are within an hour walking distance. 'There' is in many ways as dependant on cheap oil as 'here' is it's nice to know we now have shelter, water and blackberries covered.

'There' isn't perfect by any means but it's a very big step or two in the right direction. We are still unpacking.

(darn typos's)

by **Kylon** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 13:32:49

An edited down/shortened version of my former post concerning the construction of ocean dwellings-

"
I was thinking, "Where can I escape too?", and the fact of the matter is, there are no countries that are habitable, that are left untouched.

Even the uninhabitable countries(Ethiopia and the like) and filled to the brim with people.

You/we could grow edible seaweed as a food source, maybe modify it to be more nutritious, and grow seaweed as a source of food.

I have an idea(I'm not telling what it is, because I just realized this could be worth alot of money, as every future distillery would need this process) on how to cheaply/efficiently extract drinking water from salt water.

So, this process, in combination with a floating city like boat, could allow people to survive in/on the water.

The ocean cities could cheaply grow biofuels and trade them with the mainland in exchange for phosphorous and other essentials, as well as machinery, and consumer goods.

For construction of this easy ocean city-

Use double layered inflatable plastic(or plastic substitute)

One layer is the inner layer of plastic, first you pump that up, then you pump up the outer layer, then once you have pumped the inner and outer layer, you inject a type of hard paste/cement type material. This provides structural integrity to the plastic like material so that when it's faced with great external forces, the plastic holding the air in won't be the thing that suffers most of the stress. It will be the cement like material.

On the surface this seems kind of stupid, "Why put a cement material in there, isn't Cement heavy?" the answer is yes, but not if you increase the amount of the amount of volume displaced by the air in the inflatable material.

The outer plastic layer acts to minimize water leaks that might enter the cement like material. There may be a very, very small number of leaks, but not many.

If you really want things secure, then you simply increase the number of layers, and in order to compensate for the increased weight of hard materials, you increase the volume displaced by the inner most layer.

These can be cheaply, and quickly deployed, allowing quick construction of artificial land.

I don't mind talking about these ideas, because I'm sure other people have had similar ideas about using this to construct structures, just not oceanic ones.

The downside is the larger the structure, the more difficult it is to deal with waves, as waves put stress on the entire structure. This can, of course, be minimized by using tidal generators, which subsequently produce power.

Ontop of this, tidal generators can/do generate alot more power for the amount of infrastructure, due to the fact that water is much denser than air, and ontop of that(I believe this is correct), you could simply build deeper and deeper tidal generators, to generate power in the same spot, and then you could harness the water farther and farther below you(although it would just be easier/cheaper to expand because there is so much ocean to expand on).

The inflatable/cement paste method can be used for quick construction of any structure, and it makes the building capabilities very, very adaptable.

From the construction of artificial land masses, to the construction of tidal generators, to the construction of houses, that method can be used to produce most of the basic structures. Certain parts will still be required, but this would make things very easy.

This would also make it where only a major facilities are needed to produce the goods for a large variety of products. The cement/paste plant, the production of power(tidal plant), the basic machinery plant to produce the machines to inflate/pump the artificial paste, the paste supplier(probably a modification of algae), the inflatable materials plant, and the plastic supplier.

That seems like alot, but when it comes to industrial production, especially for the variety of products we have in the United States, that's NOTHING.

Another advantage of building an ocean dwelling, is it can be placed near almost anywhere(that's friendly of course). You could build your ocean dwelling near Japan, or near the United States, or wherever you want. Or you could leave all the countries and start your own city, with your own laws, where you would have to have a military."

by **Grifter** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 14:17:23

Its one of those BIG ideas Kylon. I'm sure will have its own set of problems. Do you want someone to pick apart your ideas? You know to improve them?

I like big ideas and if you embarked upon such a course then I bet it would end up very different to how you now imagine.

Just my 2cents is that I think a community of smaller craft which can be chained / Linked together for temporary settlement would be preferable to a large craft which would be easily identifiable.

But what do I know? Sounds exciting, PO or not.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nother advantage of building an ocean dwelling, is it can be placed near almost anywhere(that's friendly of course). You could build your ocean dwelling near Japan, or near the United States, or wherever you want. Or you could leave all the countries and start your own city, with your own laws, where you would have to have a military

by **Kylon** » Sat 24 Jun 2006, 15:31:20

hmmmmm lots of potential energy but great storms, followed with natural coolant.

Simple, use structural reinforcement fields!

I just realized that that structural reinforcement fields could be applied to my fusion energy design and would greatly decrease the overall cost of constructing one of those!

I wrote out a post on how to do it, then I realized I could make alot of money off of using them for my own profit, so even though I give away the basic fusion energy idea(on another post) for any and all to use, I won't give away structural reinforcement fields, due to the fact that I it would be nice to make some cash off of the fusion energy concept that I came up with.

The main problem with my fusion design is the shockwaves. In theory, it should work great, but the shockwaves are what really mess the thing up and scale up the cost. Using structural reinforcement fields I could greatly decrease the cost of constructing this fusion powerplant design! This would mean should I ever pursue the construction of one of those it would ultimately greatly increase the capacity and decrease cost!

You should see my post on fusion energy.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic11114.html

I think that this could solve our energy problem easily.

But I still wanna get away from the government. It's becoming more and more dictoral.

Fusion energy + structural reinforcement field = super cheap fusion energy.

by **Whitefang** » Sun 25 Jun 2006, 09:46:15

pstarr and others that think they can surely defend themselves,

Happy to learn that people are taking things serious and planning to leave culture for nature, at least towns for countryside.

For survival you need mental stability, a thing that my family says I do not have when I start about peak oil, 911 politics, wars and food, climate issues.

Next you need to keep yourself warm by shelter, clothing.
Surely fresh water and last food.

The big issue is that you can grow your food/be gun expert and live in or near the forest perfectly.
Were it not for the sheer amount of hungry people from towns, even special forces will in the end be killed when they defend homes, family and water/food storage.

Thing is that we have way to many opponents to handle.

When society does not completely crack, maybe you manage to defend with success, I hope so.
I think it would be best if you can escape, at least have the option, and live mobile for a few years, winters. Two steps back......hunting /gathering.

Seems that US does not offer an area that has enough resources left for a few million people on the run.
Plenty place in Canada, BC best.

Go North.

I am still stuck here, north-western euroland, out there west before the shit, need 2 years to prepare food for winter, learn some survival. Would be best to win some lottery.

by **Ludi** » Sun 25 Jun 2006, 17:20:29

I'm planning to stay home, personally.

Who is online