[mekrob]

I don't quite think that blanket collectivism is evil, just mass, large scale governmental collectivism is evil (socialism, communism, etc). If just any collectivism is evil, then what are we left with? Individualism? Yeah, that's worked out peachy for the West hasn't it?

A compromise could be made with local collectivism where corruption and brutality can't rule over so easily.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schweinshaxe', '8')O

I think Matt Bracken is right. The US police is turning into Gestapo! Police officers torture a man for hours for not "cooperating" with them.

[eastbay]

Police in the USA are under unbelievable pressure to keep our slowly unravelling society glued together. We shouldn't question too harshly their decisions even when we may not fully agree with their tactics.

As economic and political decay becomes more and more apparent questionable tactics and behaviors by police will be widely applauded and considered necessary by most. We should start adapting to this now to avoid adjusting later.

Just silently do what they say.

[OilsNotWell]

It's too bad you believe that eastbay...Most cops are good people (some are sadists, others power-trippers, etc) and believe in freedom just as much as anyone. BUT...they are human, and reflect 'accepted' notions of what is, and isn't acceptible as part of the larger society and culture around them (ex: Jim Crow) . But more simply, power can and does corrupt. Therefore, eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. If it is your contention that increasing social disruption exacerbated by peak oil and reckless and corrupt monetary policy makes the idea of 'liberty' seem 'quaint' (my choice of words is purposeful, remember how AG Torture-boy Gonzales argued that the Geneva Conventions were 'quaint'...and now look at the slippery slope that created...] I would say that history teaches us that it is precisely these sorts of events that create revolutions as a reaction and counterweight to significant increases in repression. Rather than call you a furry farm animal that says 'baah' as I believe you gave a thoughtful reply, I'll post these quotes to give you something to think about...



The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.
Sam Adams

"The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients." - Edmund Burke

"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression." - Thomas Paine

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
--Samuel Adams

EDIT:

Eastbay was being a little tongue in cheek.

I'll get down off my high hobby horse now...

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey are nothing less then the satanic army of the anti-christ.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilsNotWell', '
')The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.
Sam Adams

[TommyJefferson]

A Nanny State must have police.

It's humorous how so many people here on PO.com advocate every form of government restriction such as EPA automobile MPG standards, zoning restrictions, forced conservation, etc., but when the inevitable result of power-mad enforcers manifest their true nature, they want to cry about it.

[max_power29]

These deliverance good ol boy cops should be hung in public as well as all other enemies of the consitution. Ditto on tommy jefferson's post

[holmes]

Yes now we are getting to the nuts and bolts of powerdown. Growing the pharmecuetical military industrial complex and the police "force" is against a powerdown paradigm. As are more laws. The more human biomass the more need for "guidance". Power down is a WE the poeple thing and an original intent of constitution is a very good guide post. It really is a collective thing here. Its been changed obviously.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's humorous how so many people here on PO.com advocate every form of government restriction such as EPA automobile MPG standards, zoning restrictions, forced conservation, etc., but when the inevitable result of power-mad enforcers manifest their true nature, they want to cry about it.

[Armageddon]

I heard on the radio the following:
there was signs of barbaric torture while they were alive, their eyes were gouged out, genitals cut off and stuffed down their throats, hearts were cut out, they were beheaded. The bodies were then desecrated, booby trapped, and the road leading to them was lined with IED's.

Anybody who thinks the US is in Iraq to liberate is a moron. They are over there to protect the US oil interest in the middle east. Permanent military bases in the middle of 70 % of all known oil reserves is the objective. . The US is fighting ruthless fanatics. But the US is also ruthless. The US is killing many innocent civilians, women and children alike. We live in very precarious times, and it's not going to get better anytime soon. It's a clash against civilizations, and religious zealots from both sides, with each side thinking they are going to bring on armegeddon. Both sides are thinking they are pleasing their God. It's also a war over the last remaining oil reserves on the planet. No wonder it's so hard to concentrate these days. Too much is happening.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

We should pull our troops out now, anyone who wants to keep them there is an idiot. As is anyone who defends torturing assholes.

Whatever the reasons, doing that is beyond sick.

[Fergus]

Touchy subjext. I also agree were only there for 1 reason. Secure the oil fields. I dont know if the US will go all out and just take over the governments that hold oil, but I wager the US will engage Iran in a military conflict next, Then Venezuela or Russia????

Right or wrong, I dont know, I am not qualified for that. But I do think we have embarked on a path we can no longer turn around on. Wether we started it or not, the sleeping dog's now awake and if we dont fight there, its only a matter of time till that dog comes here and continues the jihad. While this is an oil war for us, it is survival for the jihadists and they are complelled to convert us or kill us. Its not that easy for them to just stop. Research the ideology behind the fanaticism. Its a deadly mandate laced with hate, murder and self importance.

Wether one wants this war or not, I think we have little choice left. We have to fight it till the bitter end. Can you imagine a weakened USA with Iran and Russia coupled with China's manpower all being pissed at the USA. We may have just painted our collective selves into a perverbial corner. At this point, we have to maintain a military superiority (or at least be equal in power) to the rest of the world. The bully has finally pissed off the whole school and they are ganging up on us. (Thats the way I see it anyways).

[dukey]

the human cost of the war (both sides) is pretty terrible
I dont have any figures for how many have been injured/killed but i suspect its pretty scary.

[SoothSayer]

This sort of thing happened in Vietnam too ... on both sides.

I believe that some soldiers had a grenade firmly fixed to their webbing for use as an "exit" if they were about to be taken.

War is NOT a game.

In this particular case, an Arclight strike might be a fair reward.

[PolestaR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('armegeddon', 'I') heard on the radio the following:
there was signs of barbaric torture while they were alive, their eyes were gouged out, genitals cut off and stuffed down their throats, hearts were cut out, they were beheaded. The bodies were then desecrated, booby trapped, and the road leading to them was lined with IED's.

[Venerye]

Does anyone have a link to this story? Web searches are coming up empty...

[DesertBear2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fergus', ' ')At this point, we have to maintain a military superiority (or at least be equal in power) to the rest of the world. The bully has finally pissed off the whole school and they are ganging up on us.

[grabby]

150 years ago the British stopped terrorist bombings by taking whatever remains were found and burying them in a pigskin. This prevents them from eve going to heaven.

the bombings stopped almost immediately
(Yes there were suicide Islamic bombers 150 years ago)

you could also bomb villages from high flying bombers with live pigs.


anyone found after shot would be dressed in pigskin underwear and buried. This prevents any future virgin interaction.
Thus taking away all motives.

[Zardoz]

U.S. Investigates GIs' 'Barbaric' Slayings in Iraq

We have no idea who we're fighting. Our Iraqi "allies" could quite likely be insurgents who've infiltrated the so-called "defense forces":

Iraqi colleagues killed U.S. soldiers, military says

Iraqis Killed Their U.S. Trainers, Probe Finds

What a farce. Thanks, Dick. Thanks, Rummy. Thanks, Condi.