[dbarberic]

First a definition of Locus of Control from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Locus of control is a concept in psychology, originally developed by Julian Rotter in the 1950s.

People tend to ascribe their chances of future successes or failures either to internal or external causes. Persons with an internal locus of control see themselves as responsible for the outcomes of their own actions. These individuals often believe that they control their destiny, and are often observed to excel in educational or vocational realms. Someone with an external locus of control, on the other hand, sees environmental causes and situational factors as being more important than internal ones. These individuals would be more likely to see luck rather than effort as determining whether they succeed or fail in the future, and are more likely to view themselves as the victim in any given situation.

[Ludi]

From your descriptions it looks like the Doomers or pessimists are those who are doing something (being proactive in their own lives and communities) whereas those who are optimists are merely believing or hoping someone somewhere is taking "proactive positions personally and collectively as a population to control where they go in life and to mitigate downside effect."

In other words, the Doomers are actually doing something and the Optimists are just hoping and believing.

I've yet to see an optimist on PO.com describe what they are actually presently doing in the real physical world to mitigate the problems of PO. But if you visit the Planning forum, you will see a crowd of Doomers or semi-Doomers who spend hours each day in mitigation activities.

Which reminds me, I need to get back out to the garden....

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', 'F')irst a definition of Locus of Control from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Locus of control is a concept in psychology, originally developed by Julian Rotter in the 1950s.

People tend to ascribe their chances of future successes or failures either to internal or external causes. Persons with an internal locus of control see themselves as responsible for the outcomes of their own actions. These individuals often believe that they control their destiny, and are often observed to excel in educational or vocational realms. Someone with an external locus of control, on the other hand, sees environmental causes and situational factors as being more important than internal ones. These individuals would be more likely to see luck rather than effort as determining whether they succeed or fail in the future, and are more likely to view themselves as the victim in any given situation.

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', 'F')irst a definition of Locus of Control from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Locus of control is a concept in psychology, originally developed by Julian Rotter in the 1950s.

People tend to ascribe their chances of future successes or failures either to internal or external causes. Persons with an internal locus of control see themselves as responsible for the outcomes of their own actions. These individuals often believe that they control their destiny, and are often observed to excel in educational or vocational realms. Someone with an external locus of control, on the other hand, sees environmental causes and situational factors as being more important than internal ones. These individuals would be more likely to see luck rather than effort as determining whether they succeed or fail in the future, and are more likely to view themselves as the victim in any given situation.

[jdumars]

Ludi nailed it. We've got another such discussion going over here...

Doomers are typically the ones who see that the only thing they can ultimately count on is themselves, because human nature is ultimately capricious, mercurial and dangerous. We can envision the world without its oil-cushioned veneer of civility and frankly it scares the hell out of us. When I watch TV, or go to a store or do anything where I am exposed to "consumerism," I feel like I am an alien on a distant planet. How can anyone buy in to ANY of this?? What does your average person really do with their lives? What would they do if you took away this consumptive culture and told them they could never have another cheeseburger again. We are torturing innocent people, and detaining citizens without any semblance of due process. Explain to me how this is going to get better when half of the population (or more) cannot afford to heat their homes, or drive to work every day. Those people... the ones who have blindly bought into this corporate monoculture, are the ones who see an external locus of control. When the TV says buy, they buy. When the TV says fight, they fight. What happens when the TV falls silent and broken people look around at useless iPods and flat panel monitors and realize that all of their wealth will not feed them.

I know exectly where my locus of control is, and I am guessing that other doomers feel similarly.

[dbarberic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '
')I think what you're trying to do is paint peak oil doomers as mentally f--ked up pessimistic losers who can't succeed in life. Consider the evidence to the contrary:

Richard Rainwater
Roscoe Bartlett
T. Boone Pickens
George Orwel
Stephen Leeb
Matt Simmons

Best,

Matt

[Andrew_S]

The Doomers seem to be independent minded and proactive. So if anything they seem to have an internal locus of control.

Maybe Optimists are optimists because they fear and can't face Mad Max but can't admit it to themselves (not to imply that they're assessment is less rational).

Doomers seem pretty self-confident and some seem to relish the prospect of a collapse: Optimistic Malthusians.

I'm a Moderate. Maybe I'm just confused, indecisive, weak and lack an independent spirit (probably all true). Nevertheless it may be a rational position given the evidence (and which part of the world you live in).

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Whether you have an internal or external locus of control doesn't really seem to indicate how a person will do.

I think I have an external locus of control. I very much believe that some of my actions are caused by external factors, if I didn't I wouldn't be reacting to PO in any way.

However, I am not likely to accept what others believe as fact and that I think sets people like me up to see what is going on around us instead of just accepting supposedly "common knowledge" about the world of today.

I have noticed that the majority of people here on Peak oil are more the independant sorts of people who think for themselves. I think these independant sorts are more likely to welcome a change in TWAWKI because it would then likely reflect the reality that we see.

I think having Peak oil is a great way for us to collaborate. Lots of us usually are quite skeptical about "news" and like to subject it to a little bit of harsh reality instead of just blindly accepting what TPTB want us to think. Having peak oil lets us talk to like minded individuals who have other areas of expertise so we can shred through the crap and pap that the average person is fed each day.

It is likely to keep setting us apart form our fellow sheeple and I welcome that. It can also be quite the awakening too.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', ' ')...and are more likely to view themselves as the victim in any given situation.
...doomers’ have an external locus of control

[MattSavinar]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '
')I think what you're trying to do is paint peak oil doomers as mentally f--ked up pessimistic losers who can't succeed in life. Consider the evidence to the contrary:

Richard Rainwater
Roscoe Bartlett
T. Boone Pickens
George Orwel
Stephen Leeb
Matt Simmons

Best,

Matt

[MattSavinar]

This external versus internal stuff is kind of silly. Allow me to use an example: myself.

I'm a 5'10, 195 pound male with vertical jump that you could maybe get a credit card under on a good day. Now I could bust my ass on the basketball court all I want and I'm not going to get in the NBA. I can become a much better player than I am today but I will NEVER be playing next to "La Brizzel" (That's Lebron's new nickname.)

Is that because I have an external or internal reference or is it just a recognition of the most likley reality 99.9% of the time?

Best,

Matt

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', ' ')You can be the best, most knowledgable farmer in the world and if you have piss poor soil or there is a major drought, you're fucked.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dbarberic', ' ')Personally, I was thinking of applying the concept of Locus of Control to determining if you are more likely to be a doomer or optimist regarding Peak Oil. It seems to me that at the root, doomers’ have an external locus of control and are viewing future negative predictions of Peak Oil to be environmental/situational conditions out of their control and consequently they can only be reactive to them (e.g. preparing for survival after TSHTF).

[mmasters]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'W')hether you have an internal or external locus of control doesn't really seem to indicate how a person will do.

I think I have an external locus of control. I very much believe that some of my actions are caused by external factors, if I didn't I wouldn't be reacting to PO in any way.

[galacticsurfer]

Last I remember this basic idea was in discussions about relgious people "the Lord will provide" or poor 3rd worlders being fatalistic from general life experience in poverty. I always understood that "Westerners" were control people who changed the world by forming it. This was only interrupted by Great Depression, for example.

Now trying to classify people interested in PO is a nice exercise:

Cornucopian Pessimist- internal locus for own failure( "I cannot adjust regardless how good things go-I am a weakling")/Internal locus for success/failure of others(they are smart people-they will always succeed-unless they are like me of course")-(Walter Mitty/Woody Allexn failure type)- This type presumes all will go well on earth except for himself as he is a failure.

Doomer Pessimist - total external locus for all events for all people and no chance of positive outcome-panic- (Chicken Little-"The sky is falling, The sky is Falling").

Cornucopian optimist- total internal locus of control foir self and likewise for others-success is only possibility- ignores outer world's doubts on self picture-anyone who fails is a wimp(others presumed to have same possibilities for success through own effort)- (GWBush"Bring 'Em On").

Doomer Optimist- total internal for own success/failure and total internal for failure/success of others-"We screwed it up and we can fix it" (rugged individualist survives despite all circumstances and never complains- everyone has the same chances but big picture is generally negative).

Now of course the Doomer Optimist is typically the best position to be in "hope for best, prepare for the worst".

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

All this tells you is that the "optimists" (i don't know how they got that label) are the very definition of external.