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Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate it?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby kochevnik » Thu 01 Jun 2006, 15:49:28

:!:

I just resigned.

Something non-programmers don't understand is that what we do is so far outside other people's concept of work that it's almost without exception beyond a 'normal' person's ability to comprehend. For example a good programmer is 10x more productive/valuable that a fair one and a great programmer is an order of magnitude above his 'good' counterpart. There is no other job in the world where such a huge discrepancy exists that I can think of. It's why 70 percent of large projects fail - 'good' just isn't enough in this line of work.

In the centuries past we programmers would have been the master craftsmen, engineers, military designers (Vaughban ?) etc. Now that the world of business is completely sewed up by big corps, what we do is keep the nervous system of the world running - and get paid somewhat decently for it. The trick is not to become so enamored with it that you lose sight of who and what you really are - and it certainly isn't the slave that corpGov thinks you are.

I have to laugh at all the waste though - I figure I spend 90 percent of my day on the internet, 8 percent in meetings and about 2 percent working - and yet I am one of the best in my field, I just finished one of those most major projects - brought in under budget and successfully released a month early when the old system that the entire org relied on bit the the dust. Quite the hero, but it's not who I am, it's just a job, something I am quite good at that allows me to save money and go on to something else. I am Ronin.

This spring though, I get very bad vibes from the universe. I think 2005 (maybe 2006) was one of the last 'good' years. So I'm taking my savings and cashing out my retirement money and getting it into hard assets before the dollar dives. Only way to get those monies was to quit.

I also have to laugh at those who think geek-work has no future in a post peak world. It's utter bullshit. What we excel at (those of us who are good at this) is LOGIC. Pure logic is the foundation of all reality and it's supremely useful no matter if your working with bytes, cows or guns (doesn't work so well on people tho). Whatever the future holds, the odds go to those who think the clearest and most logically, and the most uniquely. I think the true geek's ability for cogent solutions to difficult problems has almost no peer.

Anyways, for me, it's time to stop cutting bait and start fishing. YMMV
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby SoothSayer » Thu 01 Jun 2006, 16:06:52

For example a good programmer is 10x more productive/valuable that a fair one and a great programmer is an order of magnitude above his 'good' counterpart.

That's why we paid 3 - 5 times the "going rate" ... we wanted that top few percent.

It certainly pays off despite the high salary costs - you get projects designed properly, finished early, work first time, low maintenance costs, few bugs, better than the competition.

Staff recruitment is a heck of a task 'tho :(

Anyway I'm out of that now - got the T shirt etc.

Good luck with whatever you do!
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Thu 01 Jun 2006, 16:16:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '
')Staff recruitment is a heck of a task 'tho :(
I thought all you had to do was ask them if they grok grok.
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby Schweinshaxe » Thu 01 Jun 2006, 17:12:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jaws', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schweinshaxe', 'I') think we have the best job in the World to be honest. Just mix some tech lingo with some management bullshit and make sure your bosses don't understand a thing and you should be free to do whatever you want 7 hours per day.

That's why management keeps shipping your jobs to India.


My dear friend jaws. You sound a little bitter today.

The Indians can take the less qualified Windoze programming tasks if they want. I don't care.

You have to choose the right platform if you want to become a slacker programmer like me.

PC-hackers have to work long hard hours for peanuts. I don't have to do that because I belong to the IT-aristocracy.

The only platform that will survive PO i might add. Built like a tank and 100% zombie-proof... It has been declared dead for over 20 years now but the demand for skilled i5 experts has never been so overwhelming as it is right now. You just name a salary and you get it.

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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby SoothSayer » Fri 02 Jun 2006, 03:53:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '
')Staff recruitment is a heck of a task 'tho :(
I thought all you had to do was ask them if they grok grok.


That is indeed one of the sophisticated recruitment tools available in the armoury.

However many other factors also need to be considered - for example, does the applicant chew gum, smoke, like hard rock music, drive a cool car etc. (Some of these indicators are postiive, some negative)

All this in-depth assessment makes the recruitment process very tough!
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby strider3700 » Fri 02 Jun 2006, 14:22:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '
')
However many other factors also need to be considered - for example, does the applicant chew gum, smoke, like hard rock music, drive a cool car etc. (Some of these indicators are postiive, some negative)



Hmm let me guess

gum - negative it may indicate problems concentrating on individual tasks

smoke - negative lots of "quick" 5 minute breaks through out the day although I hear it does good things for concentration it doesn't work with our no smoking laws.

hard rock music - positive not sure why but most programmers I know listen to hard music, I'm an industrial guy at home, trance/techno at work

cool car - positive shows dedication to detail and an ability to follow something through to the end?
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby SoothSayer » Fri 02 Jun 2006, 14:32:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '
')
However many other factors also need to be considered - for example, does the applicant chew gum, smoke, like hard rock music, drive a cool car etc. (Some of these indicators are postiive, some negative)



Hmm let me guess

gum - negative it may indicate problems concentrating on individual tasks

smoke - negative lots of "quick" 5 minute breaks through out the day although I hear it does good things for concentration it doesn't work with our no smoking laws.

hard rock music - positive not sure why but most programmers I know listen to hard music, I'm an industrial guy at home, trance/techno at work

cool car - positive shows dedication to detail and an ability to follow something through to the end?


Correct!

Although we had to relax the smoking rule ... we hired several top French guys ...

Most gung-ho, take-no-prisoner types (i.e the ones we wanted) drive cool cars so these vehicles were treated as a good sign.

I forgot to include the "smart business suits with shiny black shoes" factor:
Warning - Will Robinson! Dork detected!
Top techies do NOT wear these to interviews.
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby Free » Fri 02 Jun 2006, 14:50:02

A tribute to all you IT-slaves, the code monkey song, by Jonathan Coulton:

http://www.jonathancoulton.com/music/th ... Monkey.mp3

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Code Monkey get up get coffee
Code Monkey go to job
Code Monkey have boring meeting
With boring manager Rob
Rob say Code Monkey very dilligent
But his output stink
His code not “functional” or “elegant”
What do Code Monkey think?
Code Monkey think maybe manager want to write god damned login page himself
Code Monkey not say it out loud
Code Monkey not crazy, just proud

Code Monkey like Fritos
Code Monkey like Tab and Mountain Dew
Code Monkey very simple man
With big warm fuzzy secret heart:
Code Monkey like you

Code Monkey hang around at front desk
Tell you sweater look nice
Code Monkey offer buy you soda
Bring you cup, bring you ice
You say no thank you for the soda cause
Soda make you fat
Anyway you busy with the telephone
No time for chat
Code Monkey have long walk back to cubicle he sit down pretend to work
Code Monkey not thinking so straight
Code Monkey not feeling so great

Code Monkey like Fritos
Code Monkey like Tab and Mountain Dew
Code Monkey very simple man
With big warm fuzzy secret heart:
Code Monkey like you
Code Monkey like you a lot

Code Monkey have every reason
To get out this place
Code Monkey just keep on working
See your soft pretty face
Much rather wake up, eat a coffee cake
Take bath, take nap
This job “fulfilling in creative way”
Such a load of crap
Code Monkey think someday he have everything even pretty girl like you
Code Monkey just waiting for now
Code Monkey say someday, somehow

Code Monkey like Fritos
Code Monkey like Tab and Mountain Dew
Code Monkey very simple man
With big warm fuzzy secret heart:
Code Monkey like you
"Democracy means the opportunity to be everyone's slave."
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby strider3700 » Fri 02 Jun 2006, 18:00:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '
')I forgot to include the "smart business suits with shiny black shoes" factor:
Warning - Will Robinson! Dork detected!
Top techies do NOT wear these to interviews.


It depends on who you're interviewing with. My current job I interview with people that I had already been contracting to and knew that I was a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy. I wore shiny black shoes and dress pants and a dress shirt to the interview for the full time position. I wore a tie at my wedding and I'll wear one when they bury me, not before then.

I mostly dressed up because there wasn't a programmer/techy between them. An interview with programmers I wouldn't wear it though.
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby strider3700 » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 14:37:33

Bring on the fucking nukes because I've had enough of this shit. I'd rather be eating plain rice and fighting off mutants at this point.

This morning my new boss came in with some suggested changes for a project that is 80-90% completed. These only fundamentally change the existing project and should only add months to a project that I was under the impression needs to be demonstrated in the next month or so.

At this point I'm just repeating. I get paid by the hour. I get paid by the hour. I get paid by the hour...
shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby eric_b » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 17:20:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schweinshaxe', ':')-D

I know what you're talking about. But hey! Do as I do. I'm a programmer and I spend maybe 1 hour every day to do constructive work for my company. The rest of the time I try to spend in meetings, surfing the Web or writing specs which no one will read anyway.

I think we have the best job in the World to be honest. Just mix some tech lingo with some management bullshit and make sure your bosses don't understand a thing and you should be free to do whatever you want 7 hours per day.

Ever seen the movie "Office Space"? I didn't laugh when I saw it because it was like a documentary to me. The thing with the cover sheet on the TPS-reports in that movie is something only a programmer can understand. An outsider would perhaps think it's hilarious but I'd say what the fuck are you laughing at? It is like that!


Office Space! I love that movie. It's so close to some jobs I've had
that it's frightening.

I've worked in programming, IT and call centers doing tech support.

I started programming as a kid - Apple BASIC, 6502 and Z80
assembly language. What I quickly learned is I love programming
as a hobby, but absolutely HATE it as a job. It's a burn out
profession. It you've managed to find a slack programming job
you can tolerate consider yourself lucky.

Probably the best programming job I had was working for a local
company (ASDG) that wrote image processing software for the
Amiga. Did one of the first .JPG encoder/decoder ports for the Amiga,
as while as lots of fun little photoshop like plugins. This companies
big ticket item was a program known as 'The Art Department'.
Sort of an early version of photoshop. This was in the days when
the PC still sucked.

All the other programming jobs I've had sucked donkey dick. It's hard
to work with managers that don't understand what you're doing,
and don't realize that deadlines and code don't often mix.
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 17:41:37

I got a CS degree in the 80's after being laid off from oil field work. It was interesting but somehow the thought of doing all that left brain cognitive work permanently was unappealing to say the least.
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby eric_b » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 18:07:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I') got a CS degree in the 80's after being laid off from oil field work. It was interesting but somehow the thought of doing all that left brain cognitive work permanently was unappealing to say the least.


Coding isn't left brain work - it's total brain work. At least for me.

When I code I tend organize and think visually about the problem.
Graphics are what got me interested in computers, and that's
what I coded. Programs to draw lines and move shapes around
the screen (at first), and then 3-D graphics - rasterizers, even
some ray-tracing stuff. Most of the stuff I coded is now obsolete,
as it's all done by the graphics card these days, in hardware.

So, much of the conceptual stuff and executive level organization
is 'right brain'. The actual nuts-and-bolts coding is more 'left brain',
I guess you could say. Part of the challenge is translating your
vision into code.

I've never really bought into the 'right-brain' 'left-brain' dichotomy
anyway. They really don't understand the brain that well.
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby Schweinshaxe » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 19:15:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('strider3700', 'B')ring on the fucking nukes because I've had enough of this shit. I'd rather be eating plain rice and fighting off mutants at this point.

This morning my new boss came in with some suggested changes for a project that is 80-90% completed. These only fundamentally change the existing project and should only add months to a project that I was under the impression needs to be demonstrated in the next month or so.

At this point I'm just repeating. I get paid by the hour. I get paid by the hour. I get paid by the hour...


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I had a project I had been working on like a Schwein for six months CANCELLED by my boss when it had already gone through the first demonstration and approval at the departments.

The users and managers at the departments went totally apeshit because they needed the new software to be able to do their business. After my boss had been threatened with torture and execution, he decided that the project wasn't cancelled after all. No one still knows why he decided to cancel the project.

He's fortunately gone now because he got promoted to a new job with a nicer title. Top management probably understood that it was too dangerous to have him around making operational decisions. Jesus Christ how I hated that man...
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby Chuckmak » Thu 15 Jun 2006, 00:06:21

i hack out my 35k a year living by breaking what you programmers create :-D

i love QA testing.
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby SoothSayer » Thu 15 Jun 2006, 03:53:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', 'i') hack out my 35k a year living by breaking what you programmers create :-D

i love QA testing.


Gosh you work for a company which TESTS their code ... not many of them about!
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby Doly » Thu 15 Jun 2006, 05:48:27

Yesterday there was a big meeting in my office. All the phones in the helpdesk of all accounts were left unmanned for half an hour, which is unheard of.

The big news: our office is closing. All our jobs are getting outsourced to Canada. Support for European customers will get done by poor guys in Canada working in the middle of the night.

Of course, my interest in moving to Canada and work in the middle of the night is exactly equal to zero. I think Canada is a really bad choice of country post PO. Too cold, and way too close to the States, that are going to be like Mad Max.

I wonder philosophically how long the Canadian helpdesk will last. I guess it all depends on how often they get blackouts in Montreal in the future.

What really gets to me of the whole thing is that the only section of the office that is going to survive is the one that I was trying to get into, because they are the only guys that can telework. But my teamleader (whose ancestors should have been killed by the Spanish Inquisition :twisted:) blocked my attempt to get into the right place. My teamleader is that sort of dumb creature that doesn't notice a fact until it hits him hard in the head. I had seen this coming for ages. He didn't.

My plan is trying to get my CV as pretty as possible before final shutdown. The Great Boss said it would be in about a year, but I'm making my plans as if it's going to be six months. I'm a big believer in Murphy's Law. If I don't manage to get somewhere else, plan B is getting a houseboat so at least I'll have a roof over my head.
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby strider3700 » Thu 15 Jun 2006, 13:33:06

Why Would they outsource to Montreal of all places? Are they aware that Quebec basically shuts down for a few weeks each winter? We specifically avoid companies that come out of Quebec because it's just impossible to get anything from them in a rush during the winter.

The houseboat sounds nice though.
shame on us, doomed from the start
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby Schweinshaxe » Thu 15 Jun 2006, 20:30:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chuckmak', 'i') hack out my 35k a year living by breaking what you programmers create :-D

i love QA testing.


I love programming because I make 3 times as much as you do! :lol:

I'm young, handsome and make a lot of money by "spacing out". What else could you ask for? :lol:

Do you free market idiots still want to defend corporate socialism? This is a perfect example of it which I of course take advantage of. Before you suggest that my job can be replaced by anyone, why don't you become a programmer and take my job? I dare you! Take my job if you can! Just take it! It's there on a free mareket! Take it!

Prove that you're better than me and take my job! Do it now or keep your fucking mouths shut forever...
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Re: Does anyone work in the IT/computing industry...and hate

Unread postby lowem » Thu 15 Jun 2006, 22:51:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'T')he big news: our office is closing. All our jobs are getting outsourced to Canada. Support for European customers will get done by poor guys in Canada working in the middle of the night ...


Shucks, that sucks. Outsourcing of call centres has been among the very first wave of services outsourcing. With India, Philippines, and now even Africa getting into the act, you've got a LOT of very, very low-cost competition.

I don't quite understand the choice of Canada too. Don't they have better things to do, like, say, digging up the tar sands? You might want to consider driving one of those monster trucks transporting the tar sands. I hear those truck drives make $100K per year. There're female drivers, too.
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