[Revi]

That article about LA blew my mind. 3 million more people just since 2000! Housing 3 times more expensive in 5 years! What a pressure cooker! California dreaming is over. Scary! How do they support all those people? Living in a slow growth place we have no idea what's going on in other states. Some growth happened here in the last five years as well. I am always amazed at the Mc Mansions going up on the hilltops. Where is the money coming from? Who still has that much? Not us middle class muddlers, that's for sure.

[holmes]

what happened?
1 - overshoot
2 - pump and dump Ponzi scheme. They pumped. We get the dump.
3 - feeding frenzy
4 - greed
5 - materialistic society
6 - neo-classical economic cult.
7 - shitbird immigration policies.
8 - Tis done. Were fucked now. Deal wid it.

Just one big unsustainable, biggest mismanaged fiasco in the history of the planet.
No soup for u! Back of the line!

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'S')ame thing in Ireland...

11 years ago the average salary was about €16,000 and the average house was €60,000. Today the average salary is €30,000 but the average house price is €320,000 and rising by €2,500 every month...

The bottom line is 2 people working in good jobs can barely afford the average house and are getting 35 or even 40 year mortgages.

[Russian_Cowboy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '
')Now the bad news. The median average income is around $45,000, right? Look at what that little bitty place is going for today:

Check the lot size

From 1.13 times the median income, it's now up to 9.4 times the average. So much for the American Dream, Lakewood-style.

Sure, these Southern California prices are insane, but they're illuminating.

[holmes]

Holy Macaroni, Russian Cowboy! I read about this somewhere. It really is shaping up to be 10% of the globe has and 90% has absolutely nothing. this is getting scary and weird.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'H')oly Macaroni, Russian Cowboy! I read about this somewhere. It really is shaping up to be 10% of the globe has and 90% has absolutely nothing. this is getting scary and weird.

[holmes]

I think your on to something, Novus.

[Aaron]

Great Farkin Thread.

Thank you all...

<kudos Spec>

[Zardoz]

Grabby posted these in the Economics forum:





Pretty ugly.

EDIT: And so is this -

Study: 43% won't have enough in retirement

[Revi]

I was planning on digging clams for my retirement, but my back hurts already from cutting wood... Oh well, we'll see how it goes. Maybe I can push wood into the stove for my daily bowl of gruel.

[Revi]

I was planning on digging clams for my retirement, but my back hurts already from cutting wood... Oh well, we'll see how it goes. Maybe I can push wood into the stove for my daily bowl of gruel.

[Pops]

I’ve long believed that we are victims of our own frugality or maybe our gluttony would be more appropriate.

Now think a minute about the last time you bought some piece of imported junk that broke the first time it was used. You had the option to buy something of better quality but you didn’t. Maybe you didn’t have the money for the better option cause you wanted to buy some other piece of crap thingy.

Why do you think it is that walmart sells the cheap crap it sells? In case it isn’t obvious, they sell cheap crap because cheap crap is what sells!

For example and since I know something about woodworking tools, there are unknown numbers of cheap toolmakers and a few almost artisan quality crafters but few in the middle. I can buy a $35 hand plane from several places that isn’t worth bringing home. I can also buy a Lie-Nelson bench plane for around $300 or a limited edition handmade plane for $1,500! The British Record planes run in the $75 – $125 range are probably the best value.

Even in a specialty item like bench planes I bet the $35 models outsell the others by a wide margin. I know it does because walmart sells it! Cripes, you can get 3 for the price of one; such a deal!

It goes like this:

Everyone wants a good job so they can live and retire well.
Everyone wants to save a little money (so they can buy a few more trinkets) so they go for the cheapest option.
Since manufacturers either get cheap or get out of business, they scrimp on materials, cut benefits and eventually move operations where wages are lower and benefits are nonexistent.
Eventually manufacturers and retailers of quality goods (and quality employers by and large) are gone.

The result is everyone bitches about cheap China imports, evil corporations exporting jobs and the demise of the middle class and their solution is to buy cheap imported crap because they say they can’t afford anything else.

Meanwhile pension programs go unfounded, burger flipping is re-classed as manufacturing and China continues loaning us money.


We got what we paid for…

[whereagles]

I don't think I'll ever be able to retire. I'm 33 and have always been jobless (been living on scholarships without retirement rights). The funny thing is I am a PhD in physics. Go figure...

Man, my country sucks.

[paleoman]

Well if 90% of us have nothing, then we have nothing to lose. If I was in that elitist 10% I would build a big fence around my mansion with lot's of barbed wire because my 90% ass is a coming for some of that rich living!

But seriously, we would have already had a revolution in this country if the middle class were not so dumbed down and out of touch with reality. I am in the process of selling 10 acres of Indiana farmland, maybe I should reconsider, 10 acres can grow a lot of food!

[mekrob]

Paleoman, Whether you should sell depends on a few things:

1) Are you moving?

2) Do you have other land?

3) If so, is that land that you are selling just on the side of your main property? (I mean physically)

4) How much land do you have after that sale?

If you are going to stay in your same place and just trying to sell extra land that you don't need now and you have a good bit of land already (minus the possible sold land), then I would say sell it. But sell it to a nice smart person/family. That way when the shit goes down, there won't just be one of you in the area, but others as well with whom you'll have more security and ability for sustainability.

[Teclo]

Pops, I agree that imported stuff was often crap quality, but note the past tense... they are catching up!

I was talking to someone about lathes, for years UK lathes were among the best, and we asked about imports. He reconned the Chinese are making beautiful quality lathes. No play or backlash, just perfect. We can't compete on anything anymore, price or quality

It's economic weirdness

Martin

[FairMaiden]

Its almost looks like the middle class has achieved the status of the noble lord: we sit back with our pants unbuttoned from feasting on the fruits of someone else's labour and gaze for hours at some idiot tube to entertain us. The "peasants" are all the low paid workers in awful 3rd world countries working themselves to the bone. But its just an illusion. Unlike our peasant ancestors, we are working 10 hour days (more if you include our awful commutes), we aren't given retirement security (the feudal lord was required by law to care for the retirees & infirm of their land) and we have no clue what is actually going on around us. The nobility is rising again and stronger than ever before. Their control and rule is elusive now and we can't see the enemy anymore.

I think most of society is purposefully taking the "blue pill" so they can continue in their comfort for as long as the system will allow it. Future generations be damned...

Some of the rest of us would prefer the truth - even if it makes life a little less comfortable.

[Russian_Cowboy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FairMaiden', 'I')ts almost looks like the middle class has achieved the status of the noble lord: we sit back with our pants unbuttoned from feasting on the fruits of someone else's labour and gaze for hours at some idiot tube to entertain us.

[SoothSayer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Teclo', 'P')ops, I agree that imported stuff was often crap quality, but note the past tense... they are catching up!

I was talking to someone about lathes, for years UK lathes were among the best, and we asked about imports. He reconned the Chinese are making beautiful quality lathes. No play or backlash, just perfect. We can't compete on anything anymore, price or quality

It's economic weirdness

Martin

[Revi]

If these nobles aren't paying our salaries and are dumping our pensions they will end up with an awful lot of disgruntled people. What are all these formerly middle class people going to do? In Russia they still had a place to live at least. When the housing bubble pops there will be a lot of people out on the street or doubled up with relatives. It's already hard to make it. Now imagine twice as many people without jobs and houses.