[Caoimhan]

What makes you think these powers are exclusively American? If the conspiracy theorists are right, they are from all over the world. And the U.S. is the 3rd most populous nation on earth (hence in need of a die-off).

[EnergyUnlimited]

As long as I am concerned these wonderful devices simply do not exist. They cannot be found either in government labs nor in someones garage. Something what does not exist cannot be used.

Marcos,
In respect to testimonies of some government employees about mentioned devices I may suggest, that they are only a part of wide ranging misinformation campain runed by government.
Similar campains had been runed in the past and rumours about capturing aliens technology released in the past by Soviets and Americans are best example of it.
So called Philadelphia Experiment (with disappearing ship) is one of the best example of this misinformation.
Governments release some bullshit hoping that others either will believe and be scared or (even better) waste time & money to investigate nonsense.

In respect to AB effect, explainable only by quantum physics, I do not claim, that it is not real.
However the same quantum effect (or yet another one) is bound to make this apparently free energy source useless for all practical purposes.

In respect to classified Tesla work.
This is a very old work and after 60 years or so other research groups from other countries were bound to bump on it, if there is anything real in it.
Top secret "high tech" research settings available to Tesla in 1943 would NOW be completely obsolete even in many of Third World countries.
If this work is real, than results would have been known by now to majority of governments worldwide and to countless private companies.
Claiming, that everyone is keeping that secret is simply ridiculous.

In respect to closing Tesla lab in 1943 and classifying all results of his research.
US was at war at this time.
Anything showing sligthest promise of possible military application would be classified. NOTHIG STRANGE IN IT.

[Caoimhan]

*sigh* looks like I'm just gonna have to build one of these machines.

Others have, and have been harrassed, bought out, threatened, shot at, shot and hit, shot and killed, arrested, had their equipment confiscated without warrant and never returned.

But some are keeping their heads down... and some are in countries where the governments leave them alone.

One group in Switzerland is running 5 of these machines and powering their communes with them.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Are you selling those machines?

[emailking]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', '
')
One group in Switzerland is running 5 of these machines and powering their communes with them.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Emailking,
I think, this thread is going banana.

[emailking]

Well, if he's got some evidence I'd like to see it. I've tried to keep an open mind about things since leaning about PO. If he doesn't have evidence of it, then it's an empty claim.

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', 'W')hat makes you think these powers are exclusively American? If the conspiracy theorists are right, they are from all over the world. And the U.S. is the 3rd most populous nation on earth (hence in need of a die-off).

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emailking', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', '
')
One group in Switzerland is running 5 of these machines and powering their communes with them.

[Caoimhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'A')re you selling those machines?

[Caoimhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emailking', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', '
')
One group in Switzerland is running 5 of these machines and powering their communes with them.

[Caoimhan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sch_peakoiler', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', 'W')hat makes you think these powers are exclusively American? If the conspiracy theorists are right, they are from all over the world. And the U.S. is the 3rd most populous nation on earth (hence in need of a die-off).

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'A')re you selling those machines?

[Lighthouse]

Cany post or PM an URL?

[small_steps]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emailking', 'I')'m not sure if by this you mean some additional current due to a bunch of deflecting electrons or the current in the solenoid itself. But a true infinitely long solenoid conducting current has no magnetic field outside of the solenoid, which is easy to show with Ampere's Law. That a charged particle can be deflected is thus a quantum phenomenon.

[small_steps]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Markos101', 'S')mallsteps,

Whilst I'm sure you impress with your use of your Physics dictionary, you should lookup AB effect.

In AB effect, the experiment setup such that the B-field produced by the solenoid is localised, and the region through which the electrons 'travel' are not subject to it. They are, however, subject to a magnetic vector potential, A, where B=0 and hence we should have no A.

There are 20,000 scientific papers on AB effect describing the setup - take a read of one of them.

[Markos101]

Hi smallsteps,

The reason it cannot be explained by a classical flux outside of the magnet is held in the results - i.e. the effect that upon the diffraction pattern of the electrons on the screen behind the two slits within the Aharonov-Bohm effect.

For ideal purposes, the B-field of the solenoid is confined purely to the solenoid itself, as in the case of an infinitely long solenoid. In reality of course, this is not possible, and so optimum materials must be chosen in order to approximate this behaviour to the greatest extent possible.

In the Schrodinger equation, if you substitute for the wavefunction associated with each electron a further phase term (based upon the requirement that our Schrodinger equation should not be dependent upon the phase of the wavefunction as the probabilty distribution function that results from it is the magnitude of the wavefunction, not phase dependent), your resultant Schrodinger equation has further components that may be equated to magnetic vector potential A and scalar potential V. To see this is action, see http://www.vttoth.com/gauge.htm for an example.

If you treat the B field outside of the solenoid as zero as in the case of the infinitely long solenoid, then use of QM (outlined in the original Aharonov-Bohm paper) shows that the electrons are behaving as if their momentum is perturbed by an extra component involving a magnetic vector potential A. This is the ideal situation, and it correctly predicts experimental results in the real situation.

Classically, we would only expect the electrons to be perturbed by a curl component of the B field = grad x A, but since the B field is zero, such A is not the result of the B-field within the solenoid. Indeed, classically, it does not exist outside of the solenoid.

Note also that in the Lorentz force, we expect the electrons classically to be perturbed by a v x B component. But B=0, and even if scientists had made the mistake of not measuring a weak B-field outside of their experimental solenoid, the A component does not have the same direction (or magnitude) of the v x B component in the Lorentz force, since B = grad x A.

My further argument is non-scientific. I simply don't think using common sense that the thousands of scientists that have understood and written papers using quantum AB effect as a theoretical basis have simply got their classical EM wrong.

Incidentyl, note that the classical concept of the electron being subject to a Lorentz force, indeed the classical concept of the electron particle without associated wavefunction determining the statistical probability of its behaviour, does not explain why even a diffraction pattern appears if you fire at the two slits in the first place!

[sch_peakoiler]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'C')any post or PM an URL?

[emailking]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emailking', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caoimhan', '
')
One group in Switzerland is running 5 of these machines and powering their communes with them.

[emailking]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('small_steps', '
')
Should have been more clear in regards to the 'current' term. I was referring to the current creating the flux in the solenoid. Are you saying that there is zero field intensity outside of solenoid (area outside solenoid goes to infinity so the reluctance tends to zero?), zero flux density (Again due to infinite area outside of solenoid for flux to return to the other end of solenoid), or zero flux.

I can see how there are valid arguements in regards to the first two, but I can't get a handle on how we can have flux through the solenoid, but no flux returning through the space outside the solenoid.

So I will argue that there exists flux outside the solenoid (when the solenoid is energized), so that the electron would seem to get perturbed by the flux in the solenoid.

What am I missing?

thanks.