[jsb1969]

Concerns regarding reprisal must be tempered by the agressive human exercise equation of the following: Energy+Weaponery+Desire+Personel+Time=Me-Kill-You
The 'insurgents' are already attacking american troops on the average of 70 times a day. Therein might the 'peak', methinks. The killing of Zarqawi is qoing to increase any of the elements of the above equation? Me no think so, señor.

[Pablo2079]

Mr. President, we're having a hard time getting any intelligence on this new activity within the insurgency. The only info we have to date is the word martyr.

[rsch20]

the father of Nick Berg was on the phone with CNN earlier this morning to comment on the situation. he blasted bush and was promptly disconnected.

the following is paraphrased from memory, it's fairly accurate.

he basically called bush a horrid dictator, soledad obrien said something about saddam and then he said 'I'm not saying Saddam is a good person, but what makes bush better? under saddam there was relative stability, under bush instability, under saddam there were about 30,000 deaths a year, under bush 50,000 deaths a year, what makes bush such a good king of iraq?'

at that point he got hung up on, soledad said the standard 'thanks for talking to us' line, skipped a couple beats before realizing he's not on the air to respond then went to something else, she looked awful uncomfortable =p

[Zardoz]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/ ... index.html

"Special Operations forces, acting on tips and intelligence from Iraqis, confirmed Zarqawi's location and delivered justice to the most wanted terrorist in Iraq," Bush said.

Seems reasonable, considering how much the Iraqis hated him.

A Web site used by Al Qaeda in Iraq confirmed al-Zarqawi's death and urged its followers to continue the insurgent fight.

Another Web site used by the group issued a statement: "People of Islam, God will not let our enemies celebrate and spread corruption in the ground. Expect the right that was stolen to come back to us and destroy the Crusaders" -- an apparent reference to U.S. troops in Iraq.

CNN could not verify the authenticity of the Web messages.

Probably legit, but who knows.

I also wonder about the condition of the body. Two 500-pounders and he looks that good, huh? It's possible, I suppose, but...

[rsch20]

oh, yea for their side, I was listening to NPR also this morning (a little later) BBC world mentioned an al-qaeda website that released a statement describing him as a martyr and that his death strengthens them etc etc.

[Mechler]

Pablo makes a good point about martyrdom. I mean, isn't this exactly what these extremists want, to die in this life and be rewarded in the next? Probably Zarqawi just went from being a leader to being a hero.

It would be nice if this really made a positve impact on the situation in Iraq. I'm not holding my breath, though...

[untothislast]

I don't put any faith in 'news' coming out of Iraq - unless it's been verified by someone reputable, like John Pilger or George Monbiot.

The entire presentation of the occupation is a stage-managed propaganda exercise - where little items like the execution of infants by US troops occasionally leak out to spoil the whole 'Mr Smith Goes To Washington' freedom fantasy.

As for Al Zarqawi's fate - does it really matter? The Allied forces are the real insurgents - and they have their own agenda for keeping the violence on the boil. Remember this one? Here's a little reminder from Wikipedia:

' . . . On 19 September 2005, two supposed SAS members were arrested in the city of Basra in Iraq. Iraqi police claimed the two were arrested trying to plant bombs dressed in civilian clothing and had shot at police officers. The arrests sparked clashes in which British armoured personnel carriers came under attack from petrol bombs. Later, official Iraqi sources said that British tanks knocked down a wall storming the city's jail and rescuing the soldiers. The British Ministry of Defence initially said that the men's release was negotiated and the tanks were merely trying to collect them. They later, however, claimed that the police had illegally handed the men over to Shi'a militia and it was from these that they had to be rescued . . . '

British SAS members, dressed as Iraqis in a car full of explosives? Join your own dots.

[rsch20]

yea, I don't take any mainstream media at face value, but I still watch it to see what the party line is and as another source of information, meager as it is.

I tend to agree that most of what you can see on CNN etc is either irrelevant (Facts of Life DVD Released, Interview with cast!) or highly suspect, almost all information I recieve these days comes under that label though. I take very little at face value anymore and try to remain open to the possibility of many different views being correct, even the msm though I give them a very low probality. just watching the daily show link up news broadcasts using the same lines and reporting the same news word for word is enough to make me suspicious.

watching the regular news while being highly skeptical of it however can still be enlightening, allowing you to contrast what the mainstream thinks with what independant research can bring up.

it's also interesting to see those rare moments when a bit of reality pokes its ugly nose in, like the phone call with Nick Berg's father earlier this morning.

[o2ny]

Election coming up? Forget the gay marriage debate, let's get back to what we're good at... killing people.

[What2DO]

Do we know if any other of Al Zarqawi's top men were killed along with him ???

[Concerned]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('whereagles', 'M')ilitant leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been killed, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki has announced.

"Today we have eliminated Zarqawi," Mr Maliki said, sparking sustained applause. The US said he was killed in an air raid near Baquba.

The Jordanian-born leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq was considered the figurehead of the Sunni insurgency.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5058304.stm

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('untothislast', 'I') don't put any faith in 'news' coming out of Iraq - unless it's been verified by someone reputable, like John Pilger or George Monbiot.

The entire presentation of the occupation is a stage-managed propaganda exercise - where little items like the execution of infants by US troops occasionally leak out to spoil the whole 'Mr Smith Goes To Washington' freedom fantasy.

As for Al Zarqawi's fate - does it really matter? The Allied forces are the real insurgents - and they have their own agenda for keeping the violence on the boil. Remember this one? Here's a little reminder from Wikipedia:

' . . . On 19 September 2005, two supposed SAS members were arrested in the city of Basra in Iraq. Iraqi police claimed the two were arrested trying to plant bombs dressed in civilian clothing and had shot at police officers. The arrests sparked clashes in which British armoured personnel carriers came under attack from petrol bombs. Later, official Iraqi sources said that British tanks knocked down a wall storming the city's jail and rescuing the soldiers. The British Ministry of Defence initially said that the men's release was negotiated and the tanks were merely trying to collect them. They later, however, claimed that the police had illegally handed the men over to Shi'a militia and it was from these that they had to be rescued . . . '

British SAS members, dressed as Iraqis in a car full of explosives? Join your own dots.

[emailking]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', 't')he father of Nick Berg was on the phone with CNN earlier this morning to comment on the situation. he blasted bush and was promptly disconnected.

the following is paraphrased from memory, it's fairly accurate.

he basically called bush a horrid dictator, soledad obrien said something about saddam and then he said 'I'm not saying Saddam is a good person, but what makes bush better? under saddam there was relative stability, under bush instability, under saddam there were about 30,000 deaths a year, under bush 50,000 deaths a year, what makes bush such a good king of iraq?'

at that point he got hung up on, soledad said the standard 'thanks for talking to us' line, skipped a couple beats before realizing he's not on the air to respond then went to something else, she looked awful uncomfortable =p

[eastbay]

I suspect CNN will yank the interview, so here it is... it's not all that long.

CNN anchor Soledad O"Brien talks to Nicholas Berg's father, Michael Berg, by phone from Wilmington, Delaware, for his reaction to the news.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Berg, thank you for talking with us again. It's nice to have an opportunity to talk to you. Of course, I'm curious to know your reaction, as it is now confirmed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man who is widely credited and blamed for killing your son, Nicholas, is dead.

MICHAEL BERG: Well, my reaction is I'm sorry whenever any human being dies. Zarqawi is a human being. He has a family who are reacting just as my family reacted when Nick was killed, and I feel bad for that. (Watch video of the two bombs falling on al-Zarqawi -- 2:00)

I feel doubly bad, though, because Zarqawi is also a political figure, and his death will re-ignite yet another wave of revenge, and revenge is something that I do not follow, that I do want ask for, that I do not wish for against anybody. And it can't end the cycle. As long as people use violence to combat violence, we will always have violence.

O'BRIEN: I have to say, sir, I'm surprised. I know how devastated you and your family were, frankly, when Nick was killed in such a horrible, and brutal and public way.

BERG: Well, you shouldn't be surprised, because I have never indicated anything but forgiveness and peace in any interview on the air.

O'BRIEN: No, no. And we have spoken before, and I'm well aware of that. But at some point, one would think, is there a moment when you say, 'I'm glad he's dead, the man who killed my son'?

BERG: No. How can a human being be glad that another human being is dead?

O'BRIEN: There have been family members who have weighed in, victims, who've said that they don't think he's a martyr in heaven, that they think, frankly, he went straight to hell ...

You know, you talked about the fact that he's become a political figure. Are you concerned that he becomes a martyr and a hero and, in fact, invigorates the insurgency in Iraq?

BERG: Of course. When Nick was killed, I felt that I had nothing left to lose. I'm a pacifist, so I wasn't going out murdering people. But I am -- was not a risk-taking person, and yet now I've done things that have endangered me tremendously.

I've been shot at. I've been showed horrible pictures. I've been called all kinds of names and threatened by all kinds of people, and yet I feel that I have nothing left to lose, so I do those things.

Now, take someone who in 1991, who maybe had their family killed by an American bomb, their support system whisked away from them, someone who, instead of being 59, as I was when Nick died, was 5-years-old or 10-years-old. And then If I were that person, might I not learn how to fly a plane into a building or strap a bag of bombs to my back?

That's what is happening every time we kill an Iraqi, every time we kill anyone, we are creating a large number of people who are going to want vengeance. And, you know, when are we ever going to learn that that doesn't work?

O'BRIEN: There's an alternate reading, which would say at some point, Iraqis will say the insurgency is not OK -- that they'll be inspired by the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in the sense of he was turned in, for example, we believe by his own No. 2, No. 3 leadership in his ranks.

And, that's actually them saying we do not want this kind of violence in our country. Experts whom we've spoken to this morning have said this is a critical moment where Iraqis need to figure out which direction the country is going to go. That would be an alternate reading to the scenario you're pointing to. (Watch how Iraqi leaders cheered after learning about al-Zarqawi's death -- 4:31)

BERG: Yes, well, I don't believe that scenario, because every time news of new atrocities committed by Americans in Iraq becomes public, more and more of the everyday Iraqi people who tried to hold out, who tried to be peaceful people lose it and join -- what we call the insurgency, and what I call the resistance, against the occupation of one sovereign nation.

O'BRIEN: There's a theory that a struggle for democracy, you know...

BERG: Democracy? Come on, you can't really believe that that's a democracy there when the people who are running the elections are holding guns. That's not democracy.

O'BRIEN: There's a theory that as they try to form some kind of government, that it's going to be brutal, it's going to be bloody, there's going to be loss, and that's the history of many countries -- and that's just what a lot of people pay for what they believe will be better than what they had under Saddam Hussein.

BERG: Well, you know, I'm not saying Saddam Hussein was a good man, but he's no worse than George Bush. Saddam Hussein didn't pull the trigger, didn't commit the rapes. Neither did George Bush. But both men are responsible for them under their reigns of terror.

I don't buy that. Iraq did not have al Qaeda in it. Al Qaeda supposedly killed my son.

Under Saddam Hussein, no al Qaeda. Under George Bush, al Qaeda.

Under Saddam Hussein, relative stability. Under George Bush, instability.

Under Saddam Hussein, about 30,000 deaths a year. Under George Bush, about 60,000 deaths a year. I don't get it. Why is it better to have George Bush the king of Iraq rather than Saddam Hussein?

O'BRIEN: Michael Berg is the father of Nicholas Berg, the young man, the young businessman who was beheaded so brutally in Iraq back in May of 2004.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')xcellent way to go through life. Only listen to those who share your beliefs, and dismiss everything else as propoganda.

[Colorado-Valley]

Nice psychops operation, anyway ...

Anybody notice the world economic markets are currently collapsing?

I thought not ...

[mekrob]

After that interview, you really have to admire that man. He lost his son in one of the most brutal ways and he maintains his pacifist view. Whether you agree with his views or not, you should still respect him for not turning so quicky (or at all) on his views despite new circumstances. Truly a man of his beliefs.

[thedoge]

It is now official: "Zarqawi death may turn tide in Iraq"

http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArtic ... I-BUSH.xml


What a relief.

[DigitalCubano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')"The business of stabilizing Iraq" = making it safe for the importation of Wal-Mart and the maximum exportation of oil to the West. It'll never work, not in that bee's nest that has caused trouble for imperial invaders since the age of Rome.