[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FoxV', 'H')i Willwork' Glad to see a realestate agent on this board. Man is your input going to be fun in the coming months.

[PenultimateManStanding]

I hear this ad on the radio once in awhile how you can get rich using debt. Somehow, you go real deep in debt, and presto! you're rich.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', '.')..Maybe we've got it all wrong?

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Prince', '
')
I'm just amazed this storm as lasted so long. In '05 we had a negative savings rate of 1-2%. In '04, it was about at the 0 mark. And with all of this, people still keep going into debt to buy not only life's essentials, but extra crap as well. How long is this going to last? I used to think this was going to unfold in '04, then '05. Now we're halfway through '06 and things are still sailing along as if there were no worries in the world. Maybe we've got it all wrong?

[shortonoil]

Recently I’ve read that 5% of the mortgages let in the last year are delinquent by 180 or more days. What I’m noticing in my area is that a number of home owners, who have built a home in the area, anticipating that they would then sell their old house upon completion, are finding that their old homes aren’t selling. This is leaving them with two mortgages to maintain plus the overhead cost of two houses. People are, however, generally still convinced that a house is an ironclad investment on which you can’t lose. The next few months will probably prove otherwise, especially as declining net world oil production begins to fall dramatically. People don’t seem to want to understand that a declining real GDP, as a result of declining energy availability, means that their world is changing fundamentally and permanently. People will just keep doing what they have always done until they just can’t do it anymore. It seems myopic, but our species has spent the last few million years in an environment that primarily consisted of attempting to survive for one more day. Maybe, it is that old habits die hard, or maybe the problem is hardwired into our brains. History seems to indicate that abstract thought has never been the strong suit for the majority of our species. Abstract thought seems to be learned and most people don’t, and never have, placed much emphasis on the learning agenda. From this view point, it is hardly surprising that people are still building huge houses that are presently unsustainable, driving 3 tons of steel that they can’t afford the fuel for, and still talk about flying from Dulles to LAX, year after next, for their grandchild’s graduation. They will just keep doing what they have always done - until the doing is impossible.

[paoniapbud]

My very first post! I have been voyeuristically enjoying PO.com for months now. I feel it is time to participate.

My what a pickle we've gotten ourselves into. People are psychotic with their spending. I work for a wireless company as a business sales rep. I've been in wireless for over ten years now and I can say that people will trip over themselves to pay $200-$1000 for the newest coolest device. I guess it's their dough but good grief people.

Americans love their cars so much that they are still willing to pay $700-$1000 per month to have that Ford diesel truck with the leather package. That doesn't even include gas, taxes, insurance, etc. These are usually people who can least afford such extravagances.

Admittedly, I fall in the doomer camp. I know it won't be pretty, but let's get this going while I'm relatively young (29) and strong. I pity the boomers and the WWII generation when TSHTF. Say bye-bye to all that expensive health care. Health care (hospitals in particular) have the highest energy footprint of nearly any industry.

My family owns a sizable ranch in Colorado and now want to sell it. I've been begging them for years now to keep it. I tell them about PO but they just look at me funny. "That ranch could be our salvation" I tell them. More funny looks. Oh, what a pickle indeed.

[Marklar]

can someone explain how a housing bubble burst is going to effect the average american?

i say spend away if it's going to come crashing down, long lines at gas stations, people killing each other for food, and other doomer stuff. What you holding your money for?

poker games, strippers, tvs, SUVs live it up before it's all gone

[mekrob]

paonip, couldn't you try to buy it from them? Just get them to hand you the property and you can pay them back over time. It would be probably the greatest thing you can do.

The housing bubble does mainly affect the people at the top. But these are the investors, the people that own small and medium sized businesses (at least the ones who will get hurt). This will affect their employees and so on.

Don't forget that there is a huge base for the housing market. Just think of all of the jobs that are needed to build a house: construction worker, contracter, furniture builder, furniture store, logger, brick maker, real estate agent, lawyer, carpet makers, electrician, plumber, etc. There are a vast number of jobs that are directly needed for building homes and thus the new housing market is a big way to help out the economy overall.

[Vexed]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are a vast number of jobs that are directly needed for building homes...

[dinopello]

I think a large part of the spending is that people feel that there is job security. I'm not saying it is justified, just that it appears to be the sentiment. The other part is that spending is entertainment. People are bored, and saving is no fun.

[FoxV]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Marklar', 'c')an someone explain how a housing bubble burst is going to effect the average american?

[seldom_seen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('willwork4food', 't')he banks are approving their mortgages in hours. How can they possibly afford it? They can't.

[WisJim]

Since the 1973 gas crisis, I have saved some money, so we don't have to borrow when we want to buy a car or remodel the kitchen or add PVs to our electrical system. My wife and I feel that money in the bank just to have extra money isn't much use if you don't have all the tools you need to live. For us that means good kitchen utensils and tools, the means to cut, split, and use firewood to cook and heat, a way to produce the electricity that we need (for us that is sun and wind), garden and farming tools of good quality, so we can grow as much of our food as possible, etc. After our "tool" and shelter needs were met, then we worry about having a cash or savings cushion, but we don't get too excited about it--who knows what inflation might do to savings, for example.

[mekrob]

WisJim, you should probably invest some of that money into precious metals, but not all of it because you just never know.

[emailking]

What does the collapse of the housing bubble mean for us renters? My guess is that it would make rents go up, but I really don't know, nor do I know if any increase will be just unpleasant or generally devestating for renters.

[FoxV]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emailking', 'W')hat does the collapse of the housing bubble mean for us renters? My guess is that it would make rents go up, but I really don't know, nor do I know if any increase will be just unpleasant or generally devestating for renters.

[jdumars]

Rents be goin' up... and up... and UP!

Here's the scenarios:

* Overextended "flippers" trapped in mortgages they can't meet try to rent their 2nd, 3rd, etc. properties before they get foreclosed on (because the market HAS to get better soon, RIGHT?!?!).

* Once those places are foreclosed, the bank has to evict the renters. Massive quantities of foreclosures make the rent prices go higher because of shortages.

* Urban renters will fare a little better for a while because large properties are usually owned by investors... either companies or individuals. But, as the market tanks, these investments will be seen as net liabilities on the books and will be sold. New owners ALWAYS raise the rent (after they paint the place to justify the raise, of course!). Those that don't/can't sell will raise the rents to offset value loss, especially on recently-purchased properties, or ones with highly-leveraged buyers. Lots of big businesses have offshoot "real estate investment" arms now -- even insurance companies -- where they parked cash reserves to crank up the net income. This is the situation our apartment complex is in. We just got hit with a 10% rent raise... the owner is a wealthy investments broker who has recently become less-wealthy. The central hot water/electricty/nat. gas expenses have gone through the ROOF -- so much so that the manager toured every apartment looking for water leaks.

Wages are not going up. This is not classic hyperinflation... it's TEOTWAWKI.

[mekrob]

TEOTWAWKI? Hey, no spanish.

[Novus]

There was a very disappointing jobs report today. In a huge debt ridden economy and all we could produce was a lousey 75,000 jobs most of which were min-wage part time jobs. They say job security is the number one thing holding spending up. Well I would not feel very secure in my job given thse numbers. Also employment is considered a lagging indicator which means jobs peak after the overall economy does. Maybe the economy has not been growing as much as the lying liars say it is, otherwise how can they explain the lack of job creation.

[Vexed]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emailking', 'W')hat does the collapse of the housing bubble mean for us renters? My guess is that it would make rents go up, but I really don't know, nor do I know if any increase will be just unpleasant or generally devestating for renters.