[SoothSayer]

Here's a nice idea: treat car parks as "land banks" to be used to build local facilities on after the Peak arrives.

Link

[Chaparral]

One thing I've seen a few mall owners propose is high density housing of up to 6 floors on top of, or adjacent to their retail/parking structures. (four to six floors is an important number; the structures can be wood framed in a zone 4 seismic area and is more economical in the western US than concrete or steel; other parts of the world may differ)

I've also wondered if subterranean garages could be turned into cisterns for water storage in dry regions. The thermal mass possibilities with such large concrete structures are intriguing.

It is also my observation that paved surfaces to tend to funnel rainwater in predictable ways. I can imagine a series of raised beds atop the plains of parking that surround the typical big box store. Low spots in the pkg lot that collect water could be perhaps punctured and turned into percolation/groundwater recharge areas with tree bogs etc (or perhaps not; transpiration may render excess soil moisture a non-issue). Unduly steep areas or gullies that channel runoff into raging topsoil destroying torrents could get similar treatment or be turned into debris catchments that could silt up and be planted or harvested for the topsoil that they accumulate. It would save the labor of breaking the concrete/asphalt as some have proposed in earlier PO survival discussions.

I've about 30 years experience with a hideously long suburban driveway that funnels huge amounts of runoff at high velocity into a garage. A pile of soil at the bottom has been colonized by creeping charlie and other plants and really seems to do well. I've repeatedly used it as a source of nice rich black topsoil and have often wondered about scaling that idea up to a walmart parking lot when things come to pass.

[Heineken]

Soil around and under parking lots---assuming any topsoil has been left intact by the construction process (unlikely)---is typically heavily contaminated by salt, oil, gasoline, metals, and other toxicants. Not a good place for a garden.

[Chaparral]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'S')oil around and under parking lots---assuming any topsoil has been left intact by the construction process (unlikely)---is typically heavily contaminated by salt, oil, gasoline, metals, and other toxicants. Not a good place for a garden.

[Heineken]

You're right about that. We'll be worried about our next meal, not whether we'll be around for meals 20 years down the line.

[jaws]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'S')oil around and under parking lots---assuming any topsoil has been left intact by the construction process (unlikely)---is typically heavily contaminated by salt, oil, gasoline, metals, and other toxicants. Not a good place for a garden.

[Heineken]

Jaws, you're a blast. One of the best members.

[LadyRuby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', 'H')ere's a nice idea: treat car parks as "land banks" to be used to build local facilities on after the Peak arrives.

Link

[SoothSayer]

Okay, by "car parks" you mean "parking lots," right?

Yes - sorry ... didn't realise that this phrase was unknown in the colonies

[peaker_2005]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '[')b]Okay, by "car parks" you mean "parking lots," right?

Yes - sorry ... didn't realise that this phrase was unknown in the colonies

[pea-jay]

If you are talking about car parks as parking garages, then those 2-4 story garages probably have some decent retrofit possibilities. In addition to the possible conversion into complete building structures, they could also see use as urban food production and waste facilities.

Imagine a 4 story concrete garage:

That was easy.

Now think of the top level. Flat and open to the elements. Now imagine it full of raised bed planters, and cultivated in a variety of different crops. Now were not talking about plants that put down deep roots or anything, but a variety of seasonal and climate-appropriate crops will do.

Now look at the second level from the top. Imagine glass on the sides, enclosing the structure. On the east west and south sides these windows would be augmented by these,



puctured through the concrete at strategic locations. With windows and lightpipes cultivation should also be quite feasable in a good portion of this floor as well, plus its enclosed status will give it some additional use as a seasonal extender by permitting earlier starts to seedlings and later seasons beyond the first frost. The shadier north portion could be used for storage, compost generation or small livestock pens.

Materials for glass enclosure, pens and raised beds could easily be acquired locally, salvaged from other uses at low costs.

On the floor up from the bottom, the balance of livestock production would occur as well as food processing (butchery, canning, etc), vermiculture and mushroom cultivation. Waste cultivation material would be composted here too.

The bottom level would house retail (related to food production or not), food waste recovery (think received shipments of left overs from individuals and restaurants as well as spoiled unsold products from stores and possibly a small waste vegetable/animal oil recovery center for biodiesel production.

That's a start anyway. Most of those uses require little in physical infrastructure investments. While use of a carpark is certainly an odd idea, there isn't anything that stick out as physically precluding its use. It would not be a true farm of course, as grain and feed production would occur elsewhere (you need larger expanses for basic staple growth as well as chicken/rabbit feed). But it would augment the local food supply, cut down on food miles drastically and introduce some circular flow of nutrients. When partnered with a nearby farm, this structure could possible generate excess compost that could be returned to the field on the truck's return trip from hauling grain, powered by biodiesel generated right there.

Am I under the illusion that this will solve the food problem/. No.

Like I said before though, every bit will help. Including using an unneeded garage

[denverdave]

The top levels of garages would be great for urban food production because they can provide security from veggie-rustlers, which will probably be a big problem for urban gardeners in a post-peak world.

They would also make good structures for municipal markets. Almost every city and town in the developing world has a municipal market, usually in a semi-open building, and they will probably have an important role in the west as the west becomes more third world.

[peaker_2005]

I was walking through one of the local suburbs recently, noting the carpark that sits behind the main roads. It's in the core of the suburb.

I imagine it being transformed into a permanent marketplace. The place already has markets once a month, so it's not like it's foreign to the location.

As for carparks, the local major shopping centre (which spans across three blocks and is essentially a three-level pedestrian mall) has a rather large carpark at both extremes (to the east and west of the core part of the shopping centre. I can easily see these being retasked for housing, especially given their proximity to the railway station (and a second line is planned to join there EVENTUALLY).

Once the peak is recognised, that rail line can be built rather quickly. The corridor that it would use (which is ironically a freeway corridor that NIMBYs have prevented from being used, thank heavens!) is one of the few reservations still remaining in this city. Some people (and the government) have said it should be tasked for this.

Sydney also has an airport that can easily be retasked because of its location next to an existing seaport (ie reinforce the runways jutting out into the bay and make it an extension to the seaport. Rail access is easily provided as there's already dedicated rail to the existing port and an extension into there would be ridiculously cheap, especially given how flat the airport is.

The passenger airport line (could be retasked to worker transportation, with a short tram line connecting the terminals (which themselves could possibly be retasked as factories given their immense size) to the port area.