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THE Jerome Corsi Thread (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby MattSavinar » Tue 23 May 2006, 16:54:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')But if Palast doesn't continue the Bush/Big Oil consipiricy he's out of a job, He said on his video he has been tracking the bush family all his career. If he discovers the final truth, party's over, right ?


Lucid way of putting it.

Best,

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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby killJOY » Tue 23 May 2006, 16:58:17

Energybulletin has posted a "Peak oil attacked from the right and the left" piece including Palast's diatribe.

Energy bulletin

You know, I think it's time to close up shop. We've lost the debate, I think.

That is, if winning means "getting out the word in time and getting enough people involved to actually change things."

No, vultures are going to sort things out for us, I'm afraid.
Peak oil = comet Kohoutek.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby clueless » Tue 23 May 2006, 17:44:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')But if Palast doesn't continue the Bush/Big Oil consipiricy he's out of a job, He said on his video he has been tracking the bush family all his career. If he discovers the final truth, party's over, right ?


Lucid way of putting it.

Best,

Matt


Palast has to write things that sell, correct ? People don't want to hear the reality that our most precious commodity is a diminishing resource, when they would rather hear about a Bush conspiricy to maximize oil profits.

Whenever I talk to anti-globalist/UN types I always ask, "is there any possibility the the UN may see resource problems down the road ?" Which is always met with a blank stare...
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Tue 23 May 2006, 20:59:51

I think it rather smart for Palast to come up with this bombshell of sorts. You have to remember that progressives know how to deal with this kind of "wedge" issue. Liberals and progressives always deal with uncertainty and shades of gray. Now of course I don't agree with what Palast thinks about this in a long-term, strategic sense, but in a tactical, short-term sense, I think he can make some headway. The headway comes because he can open up the discussion and expose some gaping holes in the 'minionist ranks. Imagine when the Cheney's of the world start attacking Palast and forget to protect their soft-white underbelly and all the maggots start crawling out. "Errr, Hubbert was right, ... no, strike that, he was wrong". Really, all that matters is getting the power mongers of the world to show their cards.

On the other hand somebody like Corsi becomes an open-sore to those in the conservative ranks. They do not allow dissension and these kinds of wedge issues drive their flock absolutely insane. A significant fraction will either all move to Corsi or move to some other POV. In the end, the conservatives will split, and you will see this happening with a host of issues, from ethanol to the rise of China as an energy consumer.

Think about it, do you really believe the questionable utility of ethanol and its rather poor EROIE has the liberals up in arms? No, because it serves as a rallying point. The shades of gray in the ethanol debate attract progressives, whereas it completely alienates the conservatives, and they go wingnut crazy over these issues.

Progressives => open to dissension, tolerate wedge issues
Conservatives => closed to dissension, sensitive to wedge issues

More power to Palast for being a bomb-thrower. He's going to rattle a few cages and stir the vermin out of their hiding holes.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Tue 23 May 2006, 23:26:04

EDITED FOR GRAMMAR

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dub_scratch', 'P')alast is a reporter with an axe to grind. His latest conspiracy tale is that the Iraq invasion was done in order to keep Saddam from flooding the world with cheap oil and that Bush & co wanted to create an artificially tight supply in order to pad the wallets of big oil

Listen to this:
http://tinyurl.com/fmnqx

I think he is full of shit. His latest attack on peak oil probably is because it is inconvenient to his conspiracy theory about Bush trying to screw Joe Sixpack and make Exxon even more rich. It's populist propaganda.


There is some truth to Palast theories, possibly.

His idea that peakers say "Bush invaded Iraq to get OUR oil for us" is a strawman argument. None of us are saying that because none of us is stupid enough to think Bush cares about anybody but his cronies.


I realise that I've logged on LONG after everyone else has ditched this issue, but here goes.

It is said that when Iraqi Invasion was being planned that Rupert "The AntiChrist" Murdoch insisted that "if Iraq is invaded, the price of Oil will drop below US$20 per barrel forever" (or words to that effect).

Please recall: it was Hugo Chavez's blustering that was pushing the price of Oil to the *gasp* unspeakably high levels of *gasp* US$22 per barrel (or so it was thought by people like Rupert) at the time.

So the motivation seemes to have been: if take out Iraq, you take out Saddam, you secure cheaper Oil, and you can run Chavez outta town.

Oddly, Greg Palast seems not to know that Hugo depends almost ENTIRELY on the Price Of Oil remaining high, to keep his reigeme going. Without high Oil Prices, Hugo cannot afford the modernisation / social programs that he's put in place. Before the American Right Wing Sneerers start up about Socialism, please remember: your bloody highway system that you all enjoy driving down is another example of such "guvvermint" hand-outs, so stop boasting about how you'd "never tolerate such wastefulness" in your country. The Highway program in the US has drunk up more of your resources than 20 Hugo Chavez's could get through in several lifetimes.

Back to what I was saying (and no doubt, everyone was ignoring): The real reason the the Oil Price has gone UP, is the lack of spare capacity in terms of getting the stuff to the "end user". This includes:

# A lack of spare shipping capacity;

#A lack of spare refining capacity ( the arch -enemy of Peak Oil, Daniel Yergin, admits that the Oil Companies have actually down-sized their Oil Refining Capacity by 10% since 1981);

# A lack of spare capacity in the present Oil pipelines (see above point);

#A lack of spare extraction capacity.

# A lack of spare discoveries (ie: oil fields known about, but not yet on tap)

The two last items is due to what we now know as "Peak oil". The rest is due to clueless Economic Rationalism / Freemarket Fundamentalism / Reaganomics / Thatcherite economics / Globalisation (whatever it's name is this week).

To make my point even clearer: we see in our Western Economic Rationalist / Fremarket Fundamentalist Societies:

#A lack of spare Hospital Capacity;

# A lack of spare road capacity;

#A lack of spare rail transport capacity;

#A lack of spare electricity transmission (grid) capacity;

#A lack of spare forward planning capacity;

#A lack of spare water supply capacity;

# A lack of spare research capacity;

#A lack of spare training capacity;

Indeed there is not ONE area of modern Society that the Invisible Hand of the Freemarket has not left underfunded, under trained, under done, under supervised, under resourced and over-priced . Even the modern Housing Market is being built with shoddy workmanship, and even more shaky financing.

In this, most people here (there are some closet cornucopians who're nay-sayers) would agree with Greg Palast in this - the Freemarket is over-rated and oversold and overpriced. Peak Oil is simply the reality check (cheque?) that the Freemarket is about to find it cannot bully, bribe or browbeat into submission.

We *might*...juuuustt....mebbbe...perhaps... side-step Peak Oil, but only after we ditch the Freemarket's psychopathic approach to everything.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'H')ere's a possible theory. Impossible to prove definitevly but worth considering/discussing:

1. Bush Co care only about the proifts of Big Oil and friends.


Matt, I'm conviced that George Dubbya doesn't know what day of the week it is. Every Oil Company George has gotten control of, he has run straight into financial ruin. Just like the state he governed (I'm told Texas was in the red when he left to become Prezz) and just like the country he's presently ruining, erm running.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '2'). Big Oil and friends got nowhere to get more oil under their control except the following place: Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia. These are the places with nationalized oil companies.


While true, attacking "Eye-Rack" was actually sactioned by the AntiChrist himself, Rupert Murdoch, as a way of cutting Hugo Chavez off at the economic knees. One of the tragic ironies of the supposedly "religious" Dubbya Administration is how they really are supping with the Devil, and the Long Spoon Is In Short Supply. More Fool They.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '3'). Increasing profits, shareholder value means you need to keep getting more oil fields in production, under your control/influence etc.


Not really: artifical shortages have been done before and will (I guess) be done so again. This is where Peak Oil is actually at it's weakest - it bears a striking resemblance to a Convenient Excuse For Raising Oil Prices By Big Oil. Indeed, one of the fastest ways to raise the price of anything is to reduce it's supply, if you can't raise the demand. And if you do that, you reduce your corporation's costs, too, because then you don't have to look to supply whatever-it-is-you're selling.

Of course, your customers ain't happy. But who gives a damn about them, anyway? It's been many years, if not decades, since "The Customer Is Always Right" was a motto for any mid-to-large sized businesses. And as for the investors...hee hee if they knew how badly the corporation was run, d'you think they'd be INVESTING in it? So they deserve "it", too.

The Freemarket? It is simply a fast way to introduce a covering sham, while actually having an effective monopoly on both supply and demand.

Lest anyone think I'm not referring to Oil: Hugo Chavez had started to get OPEC's act together and had enforced strict quotas, shortly after he became the Prez. This was why he's so hated - he had started to cut back on Oil production in the one country the US had always relied upon to break OPEC's cartel controls. He did so to raise the price of Oil. It worked, too.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '4'). Hence, the invasion/occupation. The french and Chinese companies that Saddam had given contracts got tossed out so Bush and friends could make money from the oil fields.

While true, the Chavez connection should not be ignored. One of the things the US did was to stage a coup (funded by the ever-increasingly clueless CIA) in which they tried to topple Chavez. Chavez got word from a disgruntled ex-CIA informant who had been given short shrift by the CIA and hadn't been paid "hush-up" money, so Chavez was well prepard for the coup and had stuffed his presidential "palace" with troops loyal to himself. After allowing the coup to proceed for a few days so Chavez could work out who was for him and who was against him, he calmly announced what he'd done to the new CIA appointed President, and - given the furious crowds outside who were threatening to storm the place, and Chavez's troops INSIDE who were theatening to use Unneccesary Lethal Force - the CIA appointee crumbled.

The US and especially the CIA was utterly humiliated, and this is one of the reasons the White House has been so nasty to the CIA ever since: as punishment for the spectacular blunder made while trying to topple Hugo Chavez.

OK, think about trying to do the same "coup" in Iraq...where Saddam was even LESS able to be got at than Hugo Chavez...think it would work? I dooooon't think so. No, if they wanted to reduce the Price of Oil & topple Chavez and - HEY, fellas, this is good - get their OWN Oil Supply and an entire country to practice Economic Rationalism / Freemarket Fundamentalism on, without the Human Rights dopes trying to stop them....WELL, let's invade the place! The Iraqi Military is a push-over, (they knew that before hand) and all they needed was a few convenient lies to mask the truth, and voila! Economic Rationalist Heaven On Earth, right? And all with less than 50,000 troops, and most of those would be home by Christmas of the same year.

Whatever could go wrong?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', '5'). HEre's where Peak Oil comes in: if there were decent discovery opportunities out there, the motivation to get the Iraq oil would be much less. Why get involved in a messy war in order to make money from controlling new oil fields when you can just go do some wildcatting in a nice semi-stable or friendly parts of the world?

There ARE friendly parts of the world...?...friendly to the US I mean? Other than Antarctica...(hey, do the penguins hate George, yet? I'm sure the seals do.)

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'P')roblem is the oil in the nice semi-stable or friendly parts is either used up or already under your control. So to Iraq we go.

Again, true, but the original article is one that I suspect may well be something that Greg Palast has put out as a stir.

In any case, it's the one area that Peak Oil's supporters are weak on:

If Peak Oil is happening (I think it is) then Peak Oil is going to look exactly like the convenient excuse the Big Oil Companies are looking for in order to raise prices; ignore Global Warming (if you're that way inclined); and establish Totally Obvious Control over everyone.

The ultimate irony of Peak Oil may well be that if the Oil Companies "come clean" (stop laughing, it's a turn of phrase) about Peak Oil, they will be though of as liars when they are most telling the truth.

The truth is: we need those like Greg Palast and his article to get OUR arguments straight - Peak Oil is very weak in the area Greg has pointed out. Strengthen that, we'll win the damn debate, all right, hands down.

Leave it as it is, and we'll lose, not only the debate but our entire world as well. The choice seems simple to me: how can we ask others to get their act together when we cannot - or will not - do the same?

This is a great challenge and we're told we should accept challenges. Personally, I find the whole thing somewhat of a bother.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Wed 24 May 2006, 00:40:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercynicmeister', 'T')he truth is: we need those like Greg Palast and his article to get OUR arguments straight - Peak Oil is very weak in the area Greg has pointed out. Strengthen that, we'll win the damn debate, all right, hands down.


Very weak in the area of distinguishing between (1) peak oil as a convenient excuse for raising prices and (2) controlling regions as a means to set prices.

Palast adds a needed viewpoint to the mix. I knew this article was coming ever since I read his recent articles on using Iraq as a controlling mechanism. He had to write the peak oil article to clearly demonstrate the schism. He might have gone too far in his zealousness but it certainly left a mark.
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Greg Palast has NOT joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Wed 24 May 2006, 01:13:05

I kind of had the feeling that all that Palast had set up was an interesting strawman. If you look at the companion piece to the article cited in this thread, you can see the depth of the argument. Quite revealing in his knowledge actually:

Why Palast is wrong : And why the oil companies don't want you to know it

The reason that these two stories got separated is because they are excerpts from his book, meant to be read in succession!

Palast actually knows his economics. He studied at the U of Chicago as I recall and he knows all about the cult of Milton Firiedman.

So, basically just ignore everything that people have written in this thread (except for me and Ubercynicmeister).
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby clueless » Wed 24 May 2006, 12:11:16

I have an Idea about Palast - Maybe he's scared ??? Is he super-human ? How many of you went through a period of fear when you discovered the ramifications of oil depletion ?

The guy is a reporter, not Superman. If anything he is probably pretty well off financially and thus has more to fear because he has more to lose in the event of a petro-collapse. He is not one of us poor schmucks that have nothing better to do than meditate on oil depletion...Hey - Maybe instead of "Peak Oil" we rename it "oil depletion", it doesn't sound so culty, that is after all what we are discussing.

Palast is just a guy, maybe he's also a coward. I have not met too many famous brave people, they all died in WW2.
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Re: Greg Palast has NOT joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Wed 24 May 2006, 19:24:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WebHubbleTelescope', 'T')he reason that these two stories got separated is because they are excerpts from his book, meant to be read in succession!

Palast actually knows his economics. He studied at the U of Chicago as I recall and he knows all about the cult of Milton Firiedman.

So, basically just ignore everything that people have written in this thread (except for me and Ubercynicmeister).


LOL, thanks, Web Hubble telescope...LOL, mebbe us astronomers should stick together, eh?
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Wed 24 May 2006, 19:30:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'I') have an Idea about Palast - Maybe he's scared ??? Is he super-human ? How many of you went through a period of fear when you discovered the ramifications of oil depletion ?

The guy is a reporter, not Superman. If anything he is probably pretty well off financially and thus has more to fear because he has more to lose in the event of a petro-collapse. He is not one of us poor schmucks that have nothing better to do than meditate on oil depletion...Hey - Maybe instead of "Peak Oil" we rename it "oil depletion", it doesn't sound so culty, that is after all what we are discussing.

Palast is just a guy, maybe he's also a coward. I have not met too many famous brave people, they all died in WW2.


The article posted was out of context. It goes with another piece from his book "Armed Madhouse". It only makes sense if you read the companion piece here: LINK
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Wed 24 May 2006, 20:27:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WebHubbleTelescope', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercynicmeister', 'T')he truth is: we need those like Greg Palast and his article to get OUR arguments straight - Peak Oil is very weak in the area Greg has pointed out. Strengthen that, we'll win the damn debate, all right, hands down.


Very weak in the area of distinguishing between (1) peak oil as a convenient excuse for raising prices and (2) controlling regions as a means to set prices.


It's a lot more complex than that, but that'll do as a summary. One of the things that most people seem not to realise is that the place that the Oil Companies are dumping their millions is the stock market. This is why the Stock Market is going to go like a house on fire...literally. As the place burns down, they'll be making one loooong party the whole time.

Why? Well, the Oil Companies tried dumping their billions into banks (at 11% return to the Oil Companies!) in the early 1970's and the banks then on-loaned this stuff to the various African nations who're now bankrupt. One can only give 11% return if one loans at 16%. They did this again in the 1980's and made the situation worse.

This time around the stock market will defy gravity, seemingly, for quite an extended period, simply because the Oil Companies want a better return, after being dudded on their 1970's and 1980's investments.

Now the speculators who are now handling this considerable liquidity will be looking for High Returns, too...and what stocks are doing really really well? Oil Companies. The only problem is something callled "leveraging" which allows massive returns, until The Bills fall Due, then it's good bye quick and the Oil Company's stocks will haemmorage to death, fast.

To Summaries: before this happens, the Oil Companies will be making obscene profit after obscene profit at a time when everyone else is going belly-up. Methinks those who are going belly-up because of their fuel bills might be somewhat disgruntled about it, what say?

Again, the STOCK MARKET is gunna do really really well, for a while, and this will be at the time when everyone else is going from "middle-class" to "starving" in one step. Now, I dunno about you, but the average person in the middle class probably isn't used to picking food scraps out of garbage bins in order to survive.

Worse still: let's imagine you're an Oil Company executive...how the heck are you going to explain to an increasingly angry & confused public why it is you're doing so damn well when they (the public, Joe Average) is doing so poorly...?

But WAIT, there's MORE! You're a stock market player, and well-known at that. How do you explain to those who're now unemployed & bankrupt (sent that way by the high price of Oil + high inflation, caused by the high price of Oil + the high interest rates that the Economic Rationalists will apply in desperation measures to control said inflation) why it is that a certain small sector of the Economy (the Stock market) is doing so hugely well, "off the backs of others"...?

Angry, hungry publics have a habit of electing angry, hungry governments. Angry governments rarely do what's needed, only what's "reactionary" and they will start asking for some of the massive profits of the Oil Companies to be returned to the community whence they came...then the stock prices of the Oil Companies will start to fall and the "down side" of leveraging will kick in and they'll be wiped out...and the furious public will now be asking "where did all the billions go?" Not to mention what the angry share-holders will do to the board of directors...

The various Oil Company execs will then discover the joys of the Prison Shower Room. And to think: with a bit less greed and bit more fore-thought we could have avoided all that.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')alast adds a needed viewpoint to the mix. I knew this article was coming ever since I read his recent articles on using Iraq as a controlling mechanism. He had to write the peak oil article to clearly demonstrate the schism. He might have gone too far in his zealousness but it certainly left a mark.


No, he seems to take great delight in stirring up people, but what I take to be his point stands: Peak Oil is sounding like a VERY good excuse to gouge the consumer at the pump.

Go back to that Industry Executive: let's imagine they wanna come clean about Peak Oil....what're they gunna say?

Oil Industry Executive "Oh, sorry to bother you, but we've reached the 1/2 point for our planet's Oil reserves and we're gonna see the oil get more and more expensive because we're now on the "running out" phase of it..."

Public Response (sensing another Enron-style book-cooking): "And why didn't you tell us before?"

Exec: "We hoped it would all just go away...that someone would develop an alternative to oil and..."

Public (growing anger replacing shock): "Wouldn't a substitute for Oil send your own company broke?"

Exec (trying to hold her own): "Well, we didn't want to give our competition the edge so we didn't say much."

Public: "So, you knew about this and withheld important information from both the Public AND your shareholders?"

Exec (realising withholding info is a criminal offense in some parts): "Uhhhh, well...you see...think of it from our point of view..."

Public (smelling blood): "And you are now telling us that we have to feel sorry for you for putting up with your own poor performance?"

Exec (adopting siege mentality): "We're....we're trying to do the right thing, now..."

Public: "So you weren't doing the right thing before?"

At that point the Fraud Squad marches in and the exec is described afterwards as "assisting Police with their enquiries"

Think that's going to happen? Not Bloody Likely! The response is more likely to be along the lines of "move along move along, nothing here to see, move along..."

From OUR point of view, what happens the moment the Oil Industry comes clean - and we haven't done our homework as regards 'establishing our reputation' as critics of the Oil Industry?

Instantly the entire Peak Oil Movement becomes seen as an Oil Industry Shill, a plant, a stool pigeon, an unpaid mouthpiece for Price Gouging Liars. Our greatest problem is our greatest strength - we've become so well educated in terms of Peak Oil & what and who and how and the wherefores of the whole thing we've forgotten what Peak Oil must look like to others: a whopping great front for the already-hated Corporate Excesses. The more we talk about the Oil Industry & it's failings, the more we are going to be seen as "front men" of tomorrow's Ultra-greedy Standard Oils & Universal Strangleholds (a Division of Engulf & Devour ™).

This is where the work must now be done - to put to the Public the truth about BOTH Peak Oil and those who are in the movement - disgusted insiders working with disgusted but informed outsiders, all trying to bring a mightily flawed industry to admitting the truth.

I ask everyone: in a Post Peak Oil world, which would you rather be known as: the Oil Industry's greatest friend...or a courageous David fighting against the Oil Goliath?

Pick one.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Wed 24 May 2006, 20:30:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'P')alast is just a guy, maybe he's also a coward. I have not met too many famous brave people, they all died in WW2.


I never met Mother Teresa, but she was very brave, in my opinion. And she certainly died a long time after World War 2.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby clueless » Wed 24 May 2006, 20:57:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') never met Mother Teresa, but she was very brave, in my opinion. And she certainly died a long time after World War 2.


I stand corrected !

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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Wed 24 May 2006, 22:12:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercynicmeister', 'P')ick one.


That was a masterful post.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Fri 26 May 2006, 18:36:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') never met Mother Teresa, but she was very brave, in my opinion. And she certainly died a long time after World War 2.


I stand corrected !

[smilie=adora.gif]


LOL, now, now, no grovelling around here, hee hee...
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby ubercynicmeister » Fri 26 May 2006, 18:40:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WebHubbleTelescope', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ubercynicmeister', 'P')ick one.


That was a masterful post.


OH, don't worry, I'm sure to make a complete idiot of myself, shortly, and thus ruin the reputation I've been trying to establish. :roll:
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby Sunspot » Fri 26 May 2006, 20:58:14

What really distressed me about Palast's incredibly shoddy "investigation" is that he did such a fine job unraveling the theft of the 2004 election. Although given the full democratic party complicity (can't use a capital D, sorry...), maybe theft is the wrong term, I dunno anymore.
I sent Palast a brief message that I didn't trust his research and wouldn't be paying much attention to his writings. I'm sure that'll just ruin his whole day!
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby lexicon » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 19:46:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', 'M')e, disappointed, too. And you wonder why I run screaming from politics?

You know, another lefty-turned-twat, Alex Cockburn, has taken the same smart-ass tack.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
The Virtues of Gas Guzzling:
Why I Don't Believe in "Peak Oil"

Since I don't believe in "peak oil" (the notion that world production is peaking and will soon slide, plunging the world into economic chaos) and regard oil "shortages" as contrivances by the oil companies and allied brokers and middlemen to run up the price, I fill my aging fleet of 50s and 60s era Chryslers with a light heart, although for longer trips these days I fill an 82 Mercedes 240D with diesel. True, diesel these days costs more than high-octane gasoline but the Mercedes gets 35 miles to the gallon, whereas the 59 Imperial ragtop and the 62 Belevedere wagon get around 18 mpg, which is still way ahead of the SUVs.


{edited by MQ to remove unnecessary text quotation in violation of the COC}
IT AIN'T TRUE IF YOU JUST DON'T "BELIEVE" IT!


At least Palast, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't try to buttress his balderdash with abiotic oil advocacy. But Cockburn actually subscribes to that earth-is-a-chewy-nougat-center theory:

And what of "peak oil", the theory that oil is about to run out? Since we're all supposed to be dying of avian flu in the near future, who cares since there'll be no one around to work the pumps or even drive up to them? I don't believe in any effective role of man-made CO2 in global warming, a natural cyclical trend. I think the mad rush to throw money at the pharmaceutical companies for an avian flu vaccine is ridiculous. And increasingly, I don't believe we're about to run out of oil. I hang my hat on the views of Dr.Thomas Gold (founding director of Cornell University Center for Radiophysics) as outlined in his 1999 book, The Deep Hot Biosphere.

Gold's view, supported by many well qualified people, is that oil doesn't come from dead dinosaurs and kindred organic matter. Gold argues strongly that oil is a "renewable, primordial soup continually manufactured by the Earth under ultrahot conditions and tremendous pressures. As this substance migrates toward the surface, it is attached by bacteria, making it appear to have an organic origin dating back to the dinosaurs." Oil, Earth's renewable resource! Ethanol is an attractive alternative, as Brazil is proving. But ethanl will be a tough sell here, so for the time being I'll stay with the winning side.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby XOVERX » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 22:15:54

Hmmm. If Gold thinks oil is a renewable resource, how come we aren't finding more this "renewable" resource to the extent we did in the olden days?

Furthermore, since, in Gold's view, oil is produced from within the earth by processes other than decaying organic matter, then I should think the current oilfields would have some kind of "link" to the places within the earth where the oil is "produced." Yet oilfields deplete.

I'm thinking Gold's view is definitely the minority view, and more of a outlier "theory," unobjectively demonstrable.

On another note, from reading this thread, one would get the idea that a whole bunch of posters on this site believe American politics is comprised only of socialists and national socialists. I'm thinking . . . no.
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Re: Greg Palast has joined the ranks of Jerome Corsi

Unread postby Liamj » Mon 12 Jun 2006, 23:44:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'M')ay be simplifying but: today socialists are city people, white-collar types. They don't understand really production and that includes thermodynamics and agriculture.
...


Oh sure, and all those farmers dependant upon the public purse are not socialists because .. they vote for 'republicans'? And all those mil-aerospace corps in Republican states that are entirely dependant upon War Is Peace deficit spending are not socialists because.. ?

You're confusing yourself with labels, the US has been effectively socialist since Reagan started pork barrelling every good 'ol boy who came within a mile of his office. I'm not against the State trying to slow the complete corporatisation of ag., but lets at least be honest and call a 'production subsidy/set-aside' a bloody dole. If the US gov goes broke, alot of farmers will be right behind them (similar here in Aus via 'drought assistance' programs that have run for decades).
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