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THE Solar Power & Space Thread (merged)

Discussions of conventional and alternative energy production technologies.
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Re: Space Based Solar Technology

Unread postby Frank » Tue 21 Mar 2006, 08:47:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '
')I stand by my comment.

It doesn't list how much money it actually cost him. My guess is 10-20K. Solar is simply too damn expensive for anything other the rich folk. If you believe in solar so much, put up an array in your home. Tell all your friends to do so too.

Me? I'm going to stick to my 9 cent per kwh rate.


It probably cost him more than that. And if you think space-based electricity generation is going to be less expensive than doing it in your own backyard, well...

At some point that 9 cent rate (very cheap) will rise and alternatives may start making more sense to you. And how much global warming emissions should we be expected to withstand? Just because the price is cheap doesn't mean you are bearing the entire cost.
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Re: Space Based Solar Technology

Unread postby 0mar » Tue 21 Mar 2006, 19:00:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Frank', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '
')I stand by my comment.

It doesn't list how much money it actually cost him. My guess is 10-20K. Solar is simply too damn expensive for anything other the rich folk. If you believe in solar so much, put up an array in your home. Tell all your friends to do so too.

Me? I'm going to stick to my 9 cent per kwh rate.


It probably cost him more than that. And if you think space-based electricity generation is going to be less expensive than doing it in your own backyard, well...

At some point that 9 cent rate (very cheap) will rise and alternatives may start making more sense to you. And how much global warming emissions should we be expected to withstand? Just because the price is cheap doesn't mean you are bearing the entire cost.


Exclusive solar power costs between 45 cents to a dollar per kwh.

Solar power, in any shape or form, is simply not feasible. While gas, coal and nuclear prices will rise, they won't be out of reach for most consumers. They also turn a profit, unlike most solar arrays. They are competetive, whereas solar isn't.

In the real world, solar will be a fringe power source and probably will always be for the forseeable future.
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Re: Space Based Solar Technology

Unread postby Frank » Wed 22 Mar 2006, 09:47:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '
')Exclusive solar power costs between 45 cents to a dollar per kwh.


Depends on assumed lifetime and insolation. I figure my 1920 watt array will last 30 years with worst-case cost ~ $.25/kwh. We're currently paying $.19/kwh from the grid. Solar cost is fixed and grid is not.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '
')Solar power, in any shape or form, is simply not feasible.


Sure it is! Depends where you want to spend your $ and how you want to live in the future, doesn't it?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '
')While gas, coal and nuclear prices will rise, they won't be out of reach for most consumers. They also turn a profit, unlike most solar arrays. They are competetive, whereas solar isn't.

In the real world, solar will be a fringe power source and probably will always be for the forseeable future.


That's the situation in North America for now, I agree. What happens when NG peaks? Prices have climbed significantly since the '90's and wil probably continue to do so. It'll only get worse. Germany and Japan are world leaders in solar. If we don't manage change, it will manage us.
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Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby What2DO » Wed 10 May 2006, 12:38:49

This is just the begining of this project at only 4500 acres, that will provide power to 270,000 homes for a year.

Full story hereRenewableEnergyAccess
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby holmes » Wed 10 May 2006, 13:16:44

Its ok. However it is still business as usual. A dead end. Observe liberia. The entire infrstructure MUST be changed. The entire Shit-stem has to go. Feeding unsustainable shoddy housing units with sustainable energy just doesnt cut. Build thermal mass structures and get back to us.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby Zardoz » Wed 10 May 2006, 17:50:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'I')ts ok. However it is still business as usual. A dead end. Observe liberia...


You lost me here. How is an 850-MW solar plant a "dead end", and what does it have to do with Liberia?
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby What2DO » Thu 11 May 2006, 23:09:55

Yes I dont get what he is saying either,
Anyways if this farm is scaled up to a 100 sq miles is would be able to provide power to all of America.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby Lighthouse » Fri 12 May 2006, 01:44:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'I')ts ok. However it is still business as usual. A dead end. Observe liberia. The entire infrstructure MUST be changed. The entire Shit-stem has to go. Feeding unsustainable shoddy housing units with sustainable energy just doesnt cut. Build thermal mass structures and get back to us.


And you are saying what?
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby 0mar » Fri 12 May 2006, 01:47:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('What2DO', 'Y')es I dont get what he is saying either,
Anyways if this farm is scaled up to a 100 sq miles is would be able to provide power to all of America.


Nope. Intermittant energy can only provide a fractional amount of power because the grid needs a certain amount of energy in it to work. I think the number 20% from intermittant supplies was said, but a forum spider can find the precise number and quote.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby Lighthouse » Fri 12 May 2006, 02:02:14

Interesting. only 37ft diameter. One of this mirror sterling engine combinations would easily fit in my backyard ...
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby What2DO » Fri 12 May 2006, 14:37:29

Sorry I have to adjust what I said it would take a 100 by 100 mile solar farm to power America, now we could build smaller ones in several different states and if we build even more then we need we can send the extra power to other countries. Now lets says other countires do the same is it possible to have a continous power supply from the sun as the earth turns?

Also add in wind and wave or water power.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby Tanada » Fri 12 May 2006, 17:44:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('What2DO', 'S')orry I have to adjust what I said it would take a 100 by 100 mile solar farm to power America, now we could build smaller ones in several different states and if we build even more then we need we can send the extra power to other countries. Now lets says other countires do the same is it possible to have a continous power supply from the sun as the earth turns?

Also add in wind and wave or water power.


It would be a lot more useful to build it a mile wide and have it zig-zag across the states from Virgina to California in an attempt to get the longest duration possible from the power supply, say 18 hours from sun rise in Virginia to sunset in California increaseing between March 21 and September 21. However you still have to deal with the night, cloudy days, dust storms, maintenence periods all of which take some part of your solar grid off line each day. If you were building it from Morroco to Japan you would have more dessert area's to work with and a longer east to west passagway, but you still have the same problems to some extent.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby thor » Fri 12 May 2006, 18:43:35

What about using the electricity to make hydrogen? This can be transported and stored.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby 0mar » Fri 12 May 2006, 19:27:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thor', 'W')hat about using the electricity to make hydrogen? This can be transported and stored.


Figure out how to store vast amounts of hydrogen cheaply and efficenctly and we're there.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby Tanada » Sat 13 May 2006, 06:59:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('0mar', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thor', 'W')hat about using the electricity to make hydrogen? This can be transported and stored.


Figure out how to store vast amounts of hydrogen cheaply and efficenctly and we're there.


Not to be pedantic but with cheap hydrogen you can make Ammonia or Hydrazine, both of which are mildly toxic but much easier to store. Hell if you want to invest enough energy you can conver CO2 and H2 into CH4 and O2. Methane stores very well compared to Hydrogen and we already have a vast infrastructure in place to use it.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby thor » Sat 13 May 2006, 08:02:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')It would be a lot more useful to build it a mile wide and have it zig-zag across the states from Virgina to California in an attempt to get the longest duration possible from the power supply, say 18 hours from sun rise in Virginia to sunset in California increaseing between March 21 and September 21. However you still have to deal with the night, cloudy days, dust storms, maintenence periods all of which take some part of your solar grid off line each day. If you were building it from Morroco to Japan you would have more dessert area's to work with and a longer east to west passagway, but you still have the same problems to some extent.


There are various places in the world that could benefit from this technology. Ramp up production and place these solar farms in North America, Australia, African Sahara, or any other spot with a lot of sun. Use the electricy to make a storable and transportable fuel and we have effectively mitigated PO. This is by far the most reality-based solution that can be scaled up easily.
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Re: Worlds Largest Solar Farm

Unread postby Kez » Sun 14 May 2006, 03:59:09

A big project like this is good news, because we need to get some up and running and learn from them. Hopefully they will stay on track and have it done in a few years.
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Extraterrestrial sources of energy

Unread postby Jenab6 » Mon 05 Jun 2006, 04:44:17

I figured recently that hydrocarbons could not be profitably shipped to Earth from Titan because the delta-vee required to match velocity with Earth at arrival would use up several times more energy than could be recovered by burning the cargo. And that's with the cheapest transfer orbit possible.

My question is: Is there any extraterrestrial source of energy, other than solar energy, that can be made useful on Earth at the scale needed by heavy industry?

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Re: Extraterrestrial sources of energy

Unread postby Windmills » Mon 05 Jun 2006, 11:31:06

Awaiting approval? Aw, come on. Let the post through. Wacky space schemes are like the Peak Oil version of comic strips. Don't take away the funny pages!
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Silicon Valley company to build largest solar farm

Unread postby Omnitir » Sun 29 Apr 2007, 07:20:03

OptiSolar

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') secretive Hayward, Calif. company has just announced it will build the largest solar power “farm” in North America, using solar cells manufactured in Silicon Valley.
The company, called OptiSolar, is backed by private equity firms apparently with oil connections. It has studiously avoided saying anything until this announcement.
The deal is significant, not merely for its size, but because it was scooped by such an unknown company.


40-megawatt capacity, 365 hectares, estimated $300 million to build, and operational by 2010.

Interesting that the announcement of this deal came out of nowhere.
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