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THE Africa Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: African tears

Postby threadbear » Sun 26 Mar 2006, 14:49:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MyOtherID', '.')..lived many decades in Africa (Namibia, Angola, S Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana). I was a teacher in schools with all black pupils...


Arguing against this kind of first-hand, deeply personal experience is way beyond arrogant. Hard to find the right description for it, actually.


If I was in his position, I'd detest black Africans, for a good long time. And if I was in a black African's position, I'd hate anything white. It's understandable.

It wouldn't be particularly bright to leave those feelings unexamined, without trying to balance them with some objectivity and distance. If he's still in Africa, I would recommend getting out. People who have been subjected to depravity, like black Africans often become depraved themselves. It's just that simple. There is very little the individual can do, to rectify past wrongs.
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Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby lorenzo » Wed 10 May 2006, 17:01:42

Lots of people associate Africa with eternal doom and gloom. But there's some reason for optimism. Africa is experiencing the highest growth in more than three and a half decades, and the growth is persistent.

Since the World Bank and the IMF have left the continent, humiliated and exposed as frauds, the region has begun growing again. (There's now a consensus that the Structural Adjustment programmes and the neoliberal policies advocated by the WorldBank and implemented by its non-elected offshore dictators are the main culprit for Africa's past economic disaster.)

Today, Sub-Saharan Africa is the world's fastest growing region, far surpassing East Asia, Latin America and the Middle East. (We're purely talking about hard GDP growth.)

Some numbers:

Spectacular growth, obviously, for the oil exporters:

Equatorial Guinea (+18,6%)
Mauritania (18.4%)
Chad (+18%)
Angola (+15,7%)
Congo-Brazzaville (+9,2%)
Soedan (+8%)

But it's not just oil, Africa in general is becoming an exciting place. The following countries have shown +5% growth figures consistently during the past five years and have done well this year again:

Uganda (+9%)
Malawi (+8,3%)
Ethiopië (+8,2%)
Liberia (+8%)
Mozambique (+7,7%)
Burkina Faso (+7,5%)
Sierra Leone (+7,2%)
Niger (+7%)
Cabo Verde (+7%)
Tanzania (+6,8%)
DR Congo (+6,5%)
Madagascar (+6%)

The two big bosses of Africa, Nigeria and South Africa, go along well:
Nigeria (+6.9%)
South Africa (+4,9%)

The only disaster is Zimbabwe (-6,5%), but that's because it's headed by a loony.

Now the big question is: will this great GDP growth be eaten up by population growth (which is kind of a problem in Africa)? Well, in most cases it won't. Most of the countries mentioned see their *per capita* GDP growth rising much faster too. So the good news is real good news.

Even the potential future powerhouse of Africa, non-oil producing Congo-Kinshasa, which has the continent's highest fertility and birth rate (with 3% annual growth and 6 kids per woman) sees its per capita GDP growth surpassing population growth spectacularly.

Moreover, and very importantly, these official statistics do not account for the vast informal economy that thrives in Africa. It's estimated that up to 40% of the entire continent's economy is based on it.

(A bizarre piece of news illustrates this well: mobile phones are selling like hot croissants all over Africa, so well that even the most conservative operators now see Africa as their last growth continent and they're venturing into it; the companies were perplexed, though: the official GDP growth figures could never explain the spectacular growth in demand for the product; and indeed, deeper research showed that the informal economy is entirely responsible.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
') A Yahoo News article describes how easy it is for financiers to underestimate: "The mistake, providers say, was to make plans based on GDP figures, which ignore the strong informal economy, and to assume that because land line use was low, little demand for phones existed." As it turns out, the low demand for land-lines was because quality/service was so awful, not because they weren't wanted. Cellular companies that did take the plunge have been richly rewarded: "Cell phone subscriptions jumped 67 percent south of the Sahara in 2004, compared with 10 percent in cell-phone-saturated Western Europe." The article also describes how cell phones have improved the lives and businesses of Africans, with one of the examples I've seen: "Wilson Kuria Macharia, head of the traders' association at the Nairobi market, says he no longer has to spend two to four weeks at a time roaming across Kenya and Tanzania in search of fresh produce. 'A few mobile phone calls take care of what used to be the most grueling part of the business.' "
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003636.html


So when talking about Africa, you never really get to see what's really there. The GDP numbers must be increased considerably.)


In short, there are real signs for hope.

Are we witnessing the long awaited rise of the African Leopards?

I think so, but on one condition: that the Euro-American technocrats and their offshore dictators, World Bankers and International Monetary Terror Fund Managers, do never set foot on the continent again.


Sources:
http://www.congoforum.be/ndl/nieuwsdeta ... t=selected
(Dutch article)
http://www.afrol.com/articles/19006
Last edited by lorenzo on Wed 10 May 2006, 17:45:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby americandream » Wed 10 May 2006, 17:21:33

I've never been one to believe this flim flam about Africa......after all, if you're one of the stupid lumpenproleteriat types.(forever touching your forelock at the boss as his shadow passes by), you are bound to buy into the elitist propaganda regarding the worlds most robbed continent.....yes, their elites did it to them as well as the Arab, Europeans and now Asian elites...in a nutshell the ordinary African man, woman and child was robbed by the perennial rogue, this planets over fed minority at the top.

Lol...its amusing to hear them whine on about Peak Oil while they drive their SUV's to the golf club....like the spoilt brats they are.
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby Jester » Wed 10 May 2006, 17:39:50

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how regions where famine is a regular event, experiencing population growth is all that beneficial...
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby Clouseau2 » Wed 10 May 2006, 17:50:22

If a farmer in Africa grows a subsistence crop that feeds his fellow countymen, selling it for $1/ton, and then next season switches to a cash crop, exports it to the first world for $20/ton, then his contribution to the GDP has gone up 1000%, yet there is less food to go around ...
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby lorenzo » Wed 10 May 2006, 18:39:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Clouseau2', 'I')f a farmer in Africa grows a subsistence crop that feeds his fellow countymen, selling it for $1/ton, and then next season switches to a cash crop, exports it to the first world for $20/ton, then his contribution to the GDP has gone up 1000%, yet there is less food to go around ...


And what's your point exactly?

With the US$ 19 he makes more, he buys three times more food than he normally can if he were to rely on his own subsistence crop. He buys imported grain and sugar from the EU which is cheaper. This is called trade.
And so for the first time he'll be able to feed himself and his family - who can now become full participants in the economy, upping the GDP some more.

Now I agree that the current trade regime is problematic, but not trade as such.
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby Clouseau2 » Wed 10 May 2006, 19:43:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Clouseau2', 'I')f a farmer in Africa grows a subsistence crop that feeds his fellow countymen, selling it for $1/ton, and then next season switches to a cash crop, exports it to the first world for $20/ton, then his contribution to the GDP has gone up 1000%, yet there is less food to go around ...


And what's your point exactly?

With the US$ 19 he makes more, he buys three times more food than he normally can if he were to rely on his own subsistence crop. He buys imported grain and sugar from the EU which is cheaper. This is called trade.
And so for the first time he'll be able to feed himself and his family - who can now become full participants in the economy, upping the GDP some more.

Now I agree that the current trade regime is problematic, but not trade as such.


The point is that large swaths of agricultural land are being used to grow export crops, while the population cannot afford to import the expensive food to replace the lost production.

Why would a farmer use the money to import grain and sugar from the EU? That doesn't make any sense, unless you are talking about just satisfying his personal consumption.
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby bonjaski » Wed 10 May 2006, 19:54:42

the grow from 1$ gdp to 1.10 $ :)

i think the term third world for africa is an euphemisn,
fourth world comes nearer to reality.

third world is middle east ( iran .. )
second world for example russia or mexico;

africa next 25 years won't make great steps forward, to much corruption and wrong mentality, and system;
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby bonjaski » Wed 10 May 2006, 19:58:07

we should go there with our whole force and establish a system,
where those who work gain and not those who steal or make many childrens.

for middle east its too late, muslims are already lost, they will burn (not in hell, but in sun) :))

but i am sure we can beat the right culture into those africans :))

i am proud of me, such a racist comment :))
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby lorenzo » Wed 10 May 2006, 20:19:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Clouseau2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Clouseau2', 'I')f a farmer in Africa grows a subsistence crop that feeds his fellow countymen, selling it for $1/ton, and then next season switches to a cash crop, exports it to the first world for $20/ton, then his contribution to the GDP has gone up 1000%, yet there is less food to go around ...


And what's your point exactly?

With the US$ 19 he makes more, he buys three times more food than he normally can if he were to rely on his own subsistence crop. He buys imported grain and sugar from the EU which is cheaper. This is called trade.
And so for the first time he'll be able to feed himself and his family - who can now become full participants in the economy, upping the GDP some more.

Now I agree that the current trade regime is problematic, but not trade as such.


The point is that large swaths of agricultural land are being used to grow export crops, while the population cannot afford to import the expensive food to replace the lost production.

Why would a farmer use the money to import grain and sugar from the EU? That doesn't make any sense, unless you are talking about just satisfying his personal consumption.


Mmm, I still don't understand your point. The EU can produce a lot of cheap, but very nutritious grain and sugar. It has the technology, the skills, the land and the climate to do so.

Now the EU cannot grow coffee or tea or cocoa or soybeans or coconuts. So the EU is willing to pay a lot of money for these delicacies, which grow well in Africa.

So both parties trade.

Trade is very old, and it works (if there's a fair set of rules).
And the myth about autarky, saying that a nation is only safe as long as it produces all the food it needs on its own, is very very dangerous. It has led to total disasters and mass famine (think of Mao's China).

See, the food problem in Africa is entirely based on an unfair global trade regime, on bad management, and on lack of investment in infrastructure. If the EU and the US killed their huge agro-subsidies, much of Africa's food problems would be gone quite rapidly.


Of course I'm not saying that if you're living in some African desert having only a tiny patch of land, that you should start to plant export crops on it. No, in that case you should look to other things, like finding tourist potential or something like that; plant desert roses or something and invite tourists to take pics of it. With that money you can buy all the food in the world. Many touristy island states produce ZERO food, but they sell ('trade') other services, that make them very wealthy. With that cash, they can even pay jumbojets full of freshly imported oysters and champagne from France.

So again, I don't really understand your point.
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby formandfile » Wed 10 May 2006, 20:23:07

Christ...someone please explain to me what is so wonderful about a population explosion in sub-saharan Africa??
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby lorenzo » Wed 10 May 2006, 20:30:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('formandfile', 'C')hrist...someone please explain to me what is so wonderful about a population explosion in sub-saharan Africa??


Hold on, increased per capita GDP actually produces declines in fertility (and most often declines in population growth), and vice-versa, declines in fertility (often) produce increases in per capita GDP.

This is a universally observed correlation (and also a causal relationship):
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/correlation ... =2003&l=en

[Remember the joke: "economic growth is the best birth control strategy."]

To caricature it: the poor make lots of kids, and when they get wealthier, they make fewer. It's a very logical trend that happened all over the world, throughout modern history.

I'm sure that if the rapid growth in Africa continues, the UN will have to revise its demographic projections downwards, once again.

So this is very good news.
Last edited by lorenzo on Wed 10 May 2006, 20:47:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby Atlantean_Relic » Wed 10 May 2006, 20:38:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('formandfile', 'C')hrist...someone please explain to me what is so wonderful about a population explosion in sub-saharan Africa??


Suicide by Stupidity of course! A mircocosm fo the rest of us!
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby Jack » Wed 10 May 2006, 20:53:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('formandfile', 'C')hrist...someone please explain to me what is so wonderful about a population explosion in sub-saharan Africa??


Look at the bright side! They can function as very inexpensive labor in sweatshop factories.

As the Chinese become more affluent, they won't be willing fulfill that role. So we must find someone to do the jobs Chinese aren't willing to do.

And in 40 years or so, they'll be affluent too...except...there's this Peak Oil thing that means that they won't....so they'll wind up with a greater population just as the die-off hits.

Oops! 8)
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby galacticsurfer » Fri 12 May 2006, 06:48:23

I am just reading Heinberg's book Party's Over where he says that food production is not rising although demand and population are rising( let's call it Peak Food). The USA has started importing food net- so much for breadbasket of the world. So let's look at this issue globally as we always do with oil. Just substitue the word food for oil everywhere. The world makes about half of the fertilizers from fossil fuels and are quickly degrading soil and losing water.

So we are losing capacity anyway and food capacity would decrease due to degradation even without Peak Oil. With peak oil we will lose arguably 50% of capacity as there are then only natural fertilizers(manure). So then in the normal way of things today due to globalization we transport excess food where it does occur(USA and Europe) to people who are not so efficient (Sub Saharan Africa) or have decided for another way of high Tech life (China) or whose land or water is running out (India). But unfortunately oil for global food transport won't be there or will be too expensive after PO. At the same time this occurs diesel oil for tractors and nat. Gas for fertilizers will be gone or too expensive eliminating any potential surpluses anyway.

Growth is not the paradigm we need on earth now as there are too many of us to be reasonably fed using current square footage of arable land with traditional(organic, crop rotation) farming methods. Obviously the Africans should learn how to produce enough grain or whatever for themselves just like old Egypt was the bread basket for the Mediterranean under Rome and long before that. Africans cannot rely on Europe or America anymore in times of drought as the northern surpluses will be gone and we in the north will be reduced to hard labour on farms ourselves if not to subsistence farming. Obviously Chinese and Indian and Africans see what the north has acheived in TV shows and in books and upon visiting The West and enjoy electronics, etc. and want to emulate us. In the end however the whole system is completely unsustainable. We found in Texas then in Saudi Arabia big oil wells and lived high off the hog for a century forgetting how to work. Now "The Party is Over" and reality (like on Easter Island when the last tree fell) is gonna set in fast.
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Re: Sub-Saharan Africa world's fastest growing region

Postby Doly » Fri 12 May 2006, 07:26:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('galacticsurfer', 'W')ith peak oil we will lose arguably 50% of capacity as there are then only natural fertilizers(manure).


This isn't correct.

First, because essential things, such as fertilizers, are likely to go last.

Secondly, because there are alternatives to fossil fuel fertilizers that aren't just the old traditional methods. They aren't used very often now because fossil fuels are cheap. As they become more expensive, the alternatives will become more common.
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Africa on the brink of catastrophic change -- global warming

Postby Jack » Sun 21 May 2006, 22:17:18

Africa on the brink of catastrophic change -- blame global warming

Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Africa is facing the greatest catastrophe in human history. Climate change represents a nightmare scenario for the future of the people of the world's poorest continent, according to the official preparing a top-level report due to land on the desks of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Chancellor to the Treasury Gordon Brown later this year.

More At Link

-----------------------------------------------------------------
It appears that Africa will not be a viable source for large
quantities of biofuels if the report is correct. One cannot
help but wonder if the combination of peak oil and climate
change might trigger a significant dieoff.

Better stock up on MREs. By the pallet load. 8)
Last edited by Ferretlover on Wed 11 Mar 2009, 23:02:22, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Israel Thread pt 3.
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Re: Africa on the brink of catastrophic change -- global war

Postby Laurasia » Mon 22 May 2006, 23:14:14

That article drives home the truth quite brutally; I am sitting at my computer in comfort and reading about unimaginableable death and misery. Okay, so I may encounter some misery in the future, but nothing like those poor people. I suppose SOMETHING could be done to mitigate some of the effects of climate change but it really looks like apocalypse is looming for the cradle of Humanity.

Regards,

L.
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Oil and Sub-Saharan Africa

Postby rumspringa » Sun 03 Sep 2006, 10:12:12

There's an interesting article in the month's Monthly Review on the oil politics of sub-saharan Africa--Empire of Oil: Capitalist Dispossession and the Scramble for Africa by Michael Watts

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lthough Africa is not as well endowed in hydrocarbons (both oil and gas) as the Gulf states, the continent “is all set to balance power,” and as a consequence it is “the subject of fierce competition by energy companies.” IHS Energy—one of the oil industry’s major consulting companies—expects African oil production, especially along the Atlantic littoral, to attract “huge exploration investment” contributing over 30 percent of world liquid hydrocarbon production by 2010. Over the last five years when new oilfield discoveries were scarce, one in every four barrels of new petroleum discovered outside of Northern America was found in Africa. A new scramble is in the making. The battleground consists of the rich African oilfields
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Inadequate electricity in Africa - shocking!

Postby gego » Mon 04 Sep 2006, 12:28:33

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/c ... BD4A264077

"LAST week’s warnings from gold miners operating in Ghana that their operations could be hit by power disruptions highlighted increasing power shortages across Africa, as growing economies grapple with inadequate planning and higher energy costs."
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