[PenultimateManStanding]

Sam Peckinpahs most controversial movie. Michael Medved, the movie critic says that he "despises" it. Released in 1971 it shows the story of an American astrophysical mathemetician who moves back to his wife's hometown in Ireland. The script is brilliant and the movie plumbs the depths of the human problem. The local yokels have no respect for intellectual achievment though they give constant mock-obsequious respect, they just want to shag his wife who doesn't wear a bra. Eventually the crucial scene happens: the Irish bloke rapes the wife. That scene is the really controversial aspect, because she finally comes to accept the physical domination and get off on it. Then comes the bloodshed and Peckinpah, in his genius, knowing what beasts we all really are makes the audience cheer as these bad guys are slaughtered.

[holmes]

Sam was a crazy Drunk. Bouts of depression and anxiety. fatalistic maybe. The Wild Bunch was a great movie.

[Zardoz]

Saw it when it came out, so long ago, with my first wife. We came out of the movie saying to each other "What was the point of all that?" We never came up with an answer.

I remember the radio ad: "Dustin Hoffman is driven to commit an act of total violence!"

Susan George was somethin', though. Woof! Her career was too short.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', 'S')aw it when it came out, so long ago, with my first wife. We came out of the movie saying to each other "What was the point of all that?" We never came up with an answer.

[PenultimateManStanding]

There is a serious question in all human relations: who really knows what's going on? Do animals wonder what is going on? You get the sense in this flick that this small town has some deep issues going on. The clan that gets killed at the end seems to be mired in poverty and alcoholism, but they are all wannabe alpha males. It's a grade school playground drama played out in adulthood. Having seen it again, I'm impressed with the dire analysis of human motivations. The script is nuanced to perfection; example: Hoffman is playing a game of chess with his hot wife and she is struggling to beat him and reading a book about chess and trying her best. He says to her, who is in bed, "I'll bet you you don't move before I get in bed". She says, you're on. He's supposed to do 100 jumping jacks before he gets in bed but he does only a few. She says, "you cheated". He says, no I counted in binary numbers. It seems like a trivial scene in passing, but later on in the movie she asks him, "what's a binary number?" The main issue is cowardice. Is a civilized person who understands accommodation to the presence of others and the neccessity of self-sacrifice for the greater good of interpersonal harmony supposed to lie down and play dead when egomaniacs are on the prowl? This is the kind of stuff that this amazing movie addresses.

[PenultimateManStanding]

The day may come when a man's ability to kill other men is the prime determinant in his securing a mate. Or as history has shown, securing many mates. Sneaky, underhanded methods often work in this world, but this world is finished. Laws and civil order were built as the best that could be done to control the primal forces, but as this movie demonstrates: humans are beasts. The Law won't be there to protect soon enough.

[ashurbanipal]

Keep in mind, though, that the law isn't something that people were forced into by some group of powerful aliens or something; we invented law. It is a kind of strength to dominate ones enemies in a time of chaos. But it is also a type of strength to be able to form communal bonds and sacrifice for the good of the community. The greatest leaders of men understood both.

Thomas Hobbes famously pointed out (in an age at least as brutal as our own) that without community, life is "poor, solitary, nasty, brutish, and short." Even a very strong man cannot alone withstand the determined attack of many weaker men working in concert.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ashurbanipal', 'K')eep in mind, though, that the law isn't something that people were forced into by some group of powerful aliens or something; we invented law.

[ashurbanipal]

Yeah, I really don't see evil as strength. I am saddened by the vast number of people I know who do, though. I am even more saddened by the vast number of people who are completely apathetic to anything more than their own basic comfort as well.

The time for evil is coming. But that time will not last.

One lesson I think will be relearned is that it's easy to mistake who is strong and who is weak.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Ashurbanipal, I find in you a kindred spirit. Have you seen this movie? It raises the issue of physical strength versus moral strength. Moral strength wins out in the end in the flick, but that's the way it is in hollywood movies. I have to wonder how it will play out in reality when the chips are down.

[ashurbanipal]

No, I've never seen the movie, but I probably will now.

I think that moral strength will be surprisingly powerful post-peak. Not that it will win out every time; I'm sure there will be some fantastic reversals. But in the end, the ability to form bonds with other people will beat rampaging through the streets with a Kalishnakov.

[Dukat_Reloaded]

After reading this thread, I decided to download it, it's not that good. It's allways funny to see the big dumb man accidently kill the young slut when making out, much like the scene in "Of mice and Men", and the movie just turns violent in the end. All in all the movie was abit slow and boring, I did not recive much enjoyment or entertainment from it.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dukat_Reloaded', 'A')fter reading this thread, I decided to download it, it's not that good. It's allways funny to see the big dumb man accidently kill the young slut when making out, much like the scene in "Of mice and Men", and the movie just turns violent in the end. All in all the movie was abit slow and boring, I did not recive much enjoyment or entertainment from it.