[thuja]

Its probably been just over a year since I have fully realized and digested the implications of Peak Oil. In that time, I pretty quickly realized that politicians were not likely to solve this one.

In the conservative/Republican camp, true believers would look to market principles to solve the supply problem (high price of oil encourages alternative fuels) while also turning to ANWR, coastal drilling and coal to get us out of the crisis.

In the liberal/democrat party, the concensus falls around efficiency. conservation and...giving subsidies for those mythical alternative fuels.

Both parties pin their hopes on this mythical energy source (you name it- biofuels, hydrogen, wind, solar) and both will ignore geologic principles of increasing scarcity in an effort to keep getting elected.

No one will prepare us for the true future. No one is willing to talk about continued sustained, year after year powerdowning. No one will talk about the end of business as usual. No one will say that the Dream is over.

The Democratic party comes out of a tradition of old Leftist politics that takes its cue from Socialism and aspects of Communism. If there is one idea, it is...share the wealth. Reduce class inequality by government led social programs and curtailing corporate exploitation and abuse.

However, Post peak, (and due to immense national and trade deficit debt) there will be less and less money available for social programs, or "distributing the wealth". What little money the treasury has left will be thrown at trying to solve the energy crisis and the lower and middle class will languish.

When a politician steps up and says this, and then says we need to band together to rely on ourselves in our own local communities, I will vote for him or her.

The principles of the Democratic party are dead. Long live the new party.

[KrellEnergySource]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')Both parties

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'I')n the conservative/Republican camp, true believers would look to market principles to solve the supply problem (high price of oil encourages alternative fuels) while also turning to ANWR, coastal drilling and coal to get us out of the crisis.

[TommyJefferson]

Welcome to the Dark Side Thuja!

It's not so bad over here if you can get past the Evangelicals. They are like the annoying Brother-in-Law in the family. Ignore when you can, shove against the wall and recommend shutting up when you can't.

You already value Reason, Logic, and Common Sense. Let it flourish here!

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TommyJefferson', 'W')elcome to the Dark Side Thuja!

It's not so bad over here if you can get past the Evangelicals. They are like the annoying Brother-in-Law in the family. Ignore when you can, shove against the wall and recommend shutting up when you can't.

You already value Reason, Logic, and Common Sense. Let it flourish here!

[Chaparral]

Yep. Green and Libertarian for me. Went and did it back before 2000.

Looking back now, I'm amazed at how many in the USA see the two ideological poles in the world as being Democrat and Republican with 99% of everything between the poles and only a few glaciated gullies full of the 1% enviro or Ayn Rand crazies on the outside.

[kochevnik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Thomas Jefferson was fond of Denis Diderots quote "Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."

If the republican/democrat party are going to further prevent and be a obstacle to the necessary and peaceful needed political change, ala what JFK stated by: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable", then maybe we could modernize to relevancy Diderots quote with the paraphrase :

"Americans will never regain their freedoms until the last Democrat
hangs from the entrails of the last Republican."

[jdumars]

Me before becoming PO aware:



Me after becoming PO aware:




I've had a tectonic shift in my political idiology since becoming PO aware over 2 years ago. I used to identify strongly with the environmentalist/hippie/spiritualist/democrat mindset, but now I just see the majority of these people as clueless, hypocritical idealogues. When I tell my liberal pals about PO they are the first ones to spout meaningless and uninformed crap about biofuels and technology. If the solution is not politically correct, they don't want to hear it. PO requires an unyielding amount of pragmatism, and that is not a spirit well-engendered in the liberal bias. We are SCREWED and it's not about if, but when. The question is, how do we minimize the damage and attempt to create a world that is sustainable? Maybe once everything settles and population goes back to pre-industrial levels we can talk about feel good liberalism, but right now, it's sink or swim. Now, that said, I don't think we should go out and plunder the environment either... but making any kind of transition is going to require a "deal with the devil" and we're going to have to look at all options -- whether they are PC or not.

The ship is sinking, and there's not enough time or resources to build more lifeboats.

[thuja]

Damn- from Kenny G to Mad Max...great pics jdumars. Yeah- I pretty much had an overnight shift from optimist to pessimistic realist. My friends were all pretty shocked and its all I can do to try and keep my mouth shut at social gatherings. I have to say I haven't got a gun yet but I don't rule it out.

Yes its part of my strategically minded "Chess" mind that I can see things about 12-15 steps ahead. This gives me an advantage but also leaves me cursed. Cursed because its very difficult to enjoy the here and now, to breathe easily and deeply and to relax because I see whats coming.

So yes, straight lefty liberalism is dying its last death throws. I think its possible to replace it with some sort of localised effort to care for your friends andf neighbors and make sure that everyone in your near vincinity is getting taken care of (unless they are assholes.) But the larger socialist plan to level the playing field and bring peace, justice and abundance to all...dead, deader than dead. Time to wake up and deal.

[thuja]

Oh and by the way, that doesn't mean I'm embracing the righty path either. I'd have to say they're even worse, at least in their present incarnation. Foreign wars to keep the charade going, spending like there's no tomorrow just to keep in office. Playing macho politics by continually playing the fear card- making the public freak out about gays, minorities, and terrorists. Its enough to make you sick.

I'll never joing the freaky rightist, evangelical, fearmongerers. I place much of the blame on them for promoting a culture of comfort, greed and ignorance at the expense of truly planning for our future. Still today, after a presidential panel has unequivocably linked human activity to Golbal warming, Bush says we still need more time and studies to sort this thing out. Fuck him-may he bleed for eternity in the darkest pits of hell.

Ok sorry, I should have had the decaf this morning.

[UIUCstudent01]

The Democrats aren't "The Left" if any of you haven't noticed. Those hippies and 'spiritualists' have no power in the democratic party...

Evangelicals don't really have any power in the Republican party either. They get a bunch of speeches from crooked politicians espousing their moral views, but there's never any policy shifts.

Democrats believe in neo-classical economics too. So, basing you decision on that is pretty foolish. Followerers of neo-classical economics believe in some government intervention too. So, don't think your getting any sort of extreme with the two parties.

Oh yeah, they're both mostly corrupt too. Republicans seem more-so, but that may be because there are more of them.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('UIUCstudent01', 'E')vangelicals don't really have any power in the Republican party either. They get a bunch of speeches from crooked politicians espousing their moral views, but there's never any policy shifts.

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('UIUCstudent01', 'T')he Democrats aren't "The Left" if any of you haven't noticed. Those hippies and 'spiritualists' have no power in the democratic party...

Democrats believe in neo-classical economics too. So, basing you decision on that is pretty foolish. Followerers of neo-classical economics believe in some government intervention too. So, don't think your getting any sort of extreme with the two parties.

[DJ_Mittens]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'I') pretty much had an overnight shift from optimist to pessimistic realist. My friends were all pretty shocked and its all I can do to try and keep my mouth shut at social gatherings. I have to say I haven't got a gun yet but I don't rule it out.

[jdumars]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DJ_Mittens', '
')That is EXACTLY what has happened to me over the past couple months. The more I read on PO, the more pessimistic I grow, the fewer avenues of escape I can see, and the grimmer the future I predict.

[thuja]

Nice jdumars- do you play out?

I'm imagining the musicians who played one more set as the Titanic went down..."It was sad when that great old ship went down"

However...I have to say to my Canadian brethren...if you're up there in the bitter colds of Calgary, Alberta. Seskatchewan, etc...I'd be investing in a really good stove and have a sure fire way of getting wood. Otherwise, the cost of nat.gas and oil will be a killer. Canadians on the West Coast and NWesters (Cascadians) have it a tad better weather-wise. We probably won't die in the harshest of Northwest winters as long as we have thermal underwear and a good sleeping bag.

Now about those "substances" DJ...maybe you live near Portland...

[seldom_seen]

I went through a similar falling out with "the left," while involved with the environmental movement in the 1990s.

Take Earth First for example. In their very early formation they had a "no compromise" direct action stance on environmental issues. They wanted to preserve what remained of our wilderness heritage and that was it. Original members included hippies, cowboys, ranchers, urban dwellers, backpackers, anarchists, indians and old ladies. A wide range of people. Whether you loved'em or hated'em, they were quickly co-opted by the marxist-leninists and "social justice" movements, their message watered down and rendered ineffective. Of course they are only a memory now.

The same can be said for many other successful environmental organizations. Or the "green party," which I've heard referred to as "watermelon politics," green on the outside, but red on the inside. If you analyze their issues and platform, certainly some of it is environmentally related, but much of it is the same old "social justice" issues so favored by the Che Guevera t-shirt crowd.

Certainly the Che Guevera t-shirt crowd has their right to exist and get their message out and recruit members and whatever, but they quickly pounce on and co-opt any issue that they see advantageous to their "cause." Be it the environment, immigration, race issues, war, whatever.

[marko]

As a lifelong leftist, I agree with a lot of what Thuja wrote. This thing has changed my sense of priorities, too.

But on this point I disagree:

[quote="thuja]I cannot believe in redistributing the pie when the pie is shrinking.[/quote]

Actually, redistribution could be a life-or-death matter when the pie is shrinking. It won't do for a tiny minority to get most of the goodies when the vast majority are struggling to avoid starvation.

I can only hope that people will rise up and demand a fairer distribution of remaining resources. Needless to say, I don't look to the Democratic Party for any help in that effort!

[thuja]

Good point Marko - I guess what I should have said is that the Che Guevera T-Shirt wearers believe in a world where everyone gets a fair share and has an equal ability to live the good life. That's no longer possible with the population levels we have and resources becoming scarcer.

However, I will agree with you that I would hope that we work on some level to insure that the last remaining resources do not get horded by just the few super-wealthy. I don't believe that national politics are going to accomplish much at this point. We can, however, work on a personal level to make sure our friends and neighbors are taken care of when the Depression hits. Share your bread and can of beans folks.

I haven't become a hyper-individualist that believes in fighting off the zombies with weaponry. If I have to go down, I'll go down with my friends and neighbors, sharing one last bottle of wine, one last crust of bread. I don't see the point in doing anything else.

[DJ_Mittens]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'N')ow about those "substances" DJ...maybe you live near Portland...