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"One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

"One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby coyote » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 15:14:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or a nation "addicted to oil," as President Bush put it, Senate Republicans have a proposal that can only be described as enabling: Put $100 back into the pocket of every taxpayer.

The proposal, unveiled Thursday, has been roundly criticized not only by Democrats but also by fiscal conservatives who warn it will widen the deficit while doing little to encourage energy conservation.

"It could be one of the dumbest ideas of the year," said Jerry Taylor, a senior fellow at the conservative Cato Institute. "I haven't looked at all of the ideas yet, but it's got to be right up there."

GOP tax rebate plan called costly, ineffective

Thank goodness at least some people are speaking out against this. But the Senate... shame on them, in the strongest way.

Periodically a new Peak Oil article makes it into a the mainstream media (most recently into Fox news); and when that happens someone usually mentions that their doomer meter has gone up a notch. I can understand that; but factual articles about the problem don't increase my doomerosity. What does increase it is news stories like this one. When I read this story yesterday my mouth was literally hanging open, I was so blown away by the surreal idiocy. I still don't know quite what to say about it. Some of the words that come to mind: Denial; Stupidity; Ignorance; Obtuseness; Political Expediency; Election Year; Jackass Voters. But none of these covers it. I'm flabbergasted.

I guess there are two types of pessimism: 1) The belief that we can't do anything, and 2) the belief that we won't do anything. News like this makes it really difficult to avoid the latter. Churchill said that Americans generally do what's right -- after they've exhausted all other options. Trouble is, by the time we've exhausted all the various brands of stupidity, time will probably have run out. Think thermodynamics is an insurmountable obstacle? Try politics.

Goddess, help me become an optimist again...
Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent in any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby MacG » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 15:31:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')or a nation "addicted to oil," as President Bush put it, Senate Republicans have a proposal that can only be described as enabling: Put $100 back into the pocket of every taxpayer.

The proposal, unveiled Thursday, has been roundly criticized not only by Democrats but also by fiscal conservatives who warn it will widen the deficit while doing little to encourage energy conservation.

"It could be one of the dumbest ideas of the year," said Jerry Taylor, a senior fellow at the conservative Cato Institute. "I haven't looked at all of the ideas yet, but it's got to be right up there."

GOP tax rebate plan called costly, ineffective

Thank goodness at least some people are speaking out against this. But the Senate... shame on them, in the strongest way.

Periodically a new Peak Oil article makes it into a the mainstream media (most recently into Fox news); and when that happens someone usually mentions that their doomer meter has gone up a notch. I can understand that; but factual articles about the problem don't increase my doomerosity. What does increase it is news stories like this one. When I read this story yesterday my mouth was literally hanging open, I was so blown away by the surreal idiocy. I still don't know quite what to say about it. Some of the words that come to mind: Denial; Stupidity; Ignorance; Obtuseness; Political Expediency; Election Year; Jackass Voters. But none of these covers it. I'm flabbergasted.

I guess there are two types of pessimism: 1) The belief that we can't do anything, and 2) the belief that we won't do anything. News like this makes it really difficult to avoid the latter. Churchill said that Americans generally do what's right -- after they've exhausted all other options. Trouble is, by the time we've exhausted all the various brands of stupidity, time will probably have run out. Think thermodynamics is an insurmountable obstacle? Try politics.

Goddess, help me become an optimist again...


I haver read something about that they did something similar in the Soviet Union just prior to the collapse - issued some relief-checks for fuel that is. Anyone who could fill in? I might just have dreamed it.
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby Jack » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 16:17:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '
')

Goddess, help me become an optimist again...


Hmm? Freya might, though I suspect She is a tad ticked about the way we're making a mess of the environment. But Skadhi? Surely you jest! You'll see snow in July first! :lol:

Seriously, though, this is the reason for my doomerosity. We won't do what needs to be done. Where I live, they've just finished ripping up rail to make room for more roads and a massive shopping center. Which puts my community in the running for the Peak Oil Idiocy award, I suppose.

We - individually and collectively - will spend our last farthing holding onto a doomed way of life. We won't change. Our children and grandchildren - those that survive - will. All of which assures that the crash will be deferred for a time, and be much more deadly when it comes.
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby Novus » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 17:12:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')
Seriously, though, this is the reason for my doomerosity. We won't do what needs to be done. Where I live, they've just finished ripping up rail to make room for more roads and a massive shopping center. Which puts my community in the running for the Peak Oil Idiocy award, I suppose.

We - individually and collectively - will spend our last farthing holding onto a doomed way of life. We won't change. Our children and grandchildren - those that survive - will. All of which assures that the crash will be deferred for a time, and be much more deadly when it comes.


My doomerosity has been rising not because we are not doing anything but we are doing the wrong things. Your community is not the only one sacrificing itself to the car. It is a story played out thousands of times going back over 50 years. It is what suburbia is all about. Replace public transportation with private cars and SUVs. Build huge big box shopping malls that crush all the small community owned stores in a five mile radius. Strickly zone residential far from commerical districts so people have to make five or six trips by car every single day of the week. Suburbia was a rat race even when gas was nearly free. Soon it will be a decaying ruin.
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby Lighthouse » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 21:50:59

I would define myself as an optimistic doomer.

I know I can save myself and my family, I can help my friends, but the world as it is is definitely fucked.

The sad thing is most people don't know and don't even want to know until realty will catch up with them.
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby pigleg » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 21:57:52

I prefer 'Realist'. Or even, Scientist. Shazam, here are the facts staring you in the face.
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby Lighthouse » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 22:07:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pigleg', 'I') prefer 'Realist'. Or even, Scientist. Shazam, here are the facts staring you in the face.


I was thinking "realist" but according to quantum physics there is no such a thing as a clearly defined realty.

And science will not save us. My vegetable garden and my orchard will. Not to mention the cows, chicken and pigs ...
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby frankthetank » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 22:26:58

Yup, ideas like this scare the hell out of me. What happens when the price really takes off? It wouldn't suprise me if they sell Yellowstone to the Chinese and auction Glacier National to the highest bidder.
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby coyote » Sat 29 Apr 2006, 22:47:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '
')

Goddess, help me become an optimist again...


Hmm? Freya might, though I suspect She is a tad ticked about the way we're making a mess of the environment. But Skadhi? Surely you jest! You'll see snow in July first! :lol:

Heh good one Jack... but of course I was referring to Earth Mother... 8)
Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent in any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby RonMN » Sun 30 Apr 2006, 00:00:59

Don't laugh about snow in july...last year we had 16 counties in northern Minnesota file for relief because their crops froze solid...IN AUGUST! The HOTTEST friggin month of the year.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby Free » Sun 30 Apr 2006, 00:15:03

I don't think it's a dumb idea. I think it's a brilliant idea. At least from the perspective of a politician.

Point is, it works. If you do things like this, promise stuff right before elections, hand out small candies, create the impression of being concerned and doing something, you will get reelected.

If you tell the people the truth, plan for the future and "hurt" people in the present, you won't get reelected.

And this is a universal law.
In fact it's fascinating for me to watch how similar the reactions and statements, concerning rising energy costs, of officials, political parties, media and public opinion both in the USA and here really are, maybe more similar than regarding any other political topic.

Every people has the government it deserves.
"Democracy means the opportunity to be everyone's slave."
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby Jack » Sun 30 Apr 2006, 00:35:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'D')on't laugh about snow in july...last year we had 16 counties in northern Minnesota file for relief because their crops froze solid...IN AUGUST! The HOTTEST friggin month of the year.


Hmm? Well, I can't say I'm surprised. Using Frigga's name in vain....tut, tut. Keep doing that, and there's no telling what will happen. :lol:
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby wildilocks » Sun 30 Apr 2006, 02:22:54

Where I live, they've just finished ripping up rail to make room for more roads and a massive shopping center.

Well, where I live they brought back rail when I was in grade school, after the metropolitan train transit system being mostly offline for decades [only one line was running before that]. Then they electrified the system about a decade later, then started adding new lines. They are currently constructing a massive new rail line which is due to be completed some time next year, and allow commuting by rail for double/triple previous distances down a new corridor. A couple of years ago a complete cycle path system was completed which runs down all rail lines - I take this path to work and it's the *fastest* mode of transport to get into the city - and I used to ride a scooter, which I thought was fast then!

I dunno, maybe I'm in a good place?

Then again, my government is busy putting in place laws to oppress the population as firmly as possible [following the footsteps of the US], and seems to be gearing up for hard times, things don't look so great for the average joe...
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Re: "One of the dumbest ideas of the year"

Postby mrobert » Sun 30 Apr 2006, 03:39:08

I mentioned this on another thread.
Politicians will usually solve any problem, by printing money.

Around here, they have been doing the "rebate thing" for years now ... specially during the elections.

There was even a huge advertising banner across the street, last year :


"Relax conveniently in your home! You don't need to do anything! The government will send you your check by mail"
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