PeakOil is You
Gas shortages hit the East Coast
Re: Gas shortages hit the East Coast
by Barbara » Fri 21 Apr 2006, 07:48:19
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he car in the US is like a bicycle in Europe.
Where do you get your info about Europe?
In 1950's movies?
Here nobody drives bycicles. In this city (Rome) we have 950 cars every 1000 inhabitants, I think it's the highest rate in the EU. One per person, if you're stills stuck into that 1950's movie.
And yes, gas is at 6$ per gallon and everybody keeps driving without any complain. Maybe it's because we're richer.
**no english mothertongue**
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Objects in the rear view mirror
are closer than they appear.
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Objects in the rear view mirror
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Re: Gas shortages hit the East Coast
by TorrKing » Fri 21 Apr 2006, 08:12:06
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '
')For example during the last couple of years oil has gone from $20 to $70. Bread, milk and meat are as cheap as ever.
')For example during the last couple of years oil has gone from $20 to $70. Bread, milk and meat are as cheap as ever.
The consumer end has experienced lower prices, but that will probably change. The reason for this is, to my knowledge, that the store-chains have used their market power to negotiate ever lower prices with the farmers. My father is a sheep farmer and the price on sheep meat has gone down significantly the last years.
As more and more trade barriers have been removed, cheap the store-chains can use cheap imports to push the prices down.
But when the oil gets expensive enough that will change. To see any significant change I guess we need at least $200 a barrel.
An example:
Today, cheap Australian sheep meat is dumped on the European market. That is a long way for shipping a little meat. As the oil gets more expensive, so will these shipments.
Equally in Norway (Chicken this time): Chicken are being transported from the rest of the country to one facility in the south, where they are slaughtered. After packing they are shipped back again to places hundreds of miles away into the stores. The newest introduction in this process around here is the JIT philosophy, which makes for even more shipments.
With all that transportation in the picture, of course the food will become more expensive soon, a lot of fuel is involved. When the market starts realizing these fuel-prices are permanent, they will probably adjust their prices upwards too.
Without the cheap Australian sheep meat, the power in the market will possibly shift over again to local farmers and my father will make more money again.
A little long, and a little off topic. Just had to.
Torjus Gaaren
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Re: Gas shortages hit the East Coast
by basil_hayden » Fri 21 Apr 2006, 08:13:36
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jester', 'T')he shortages are pure ineptitude. It's like rotating stock in a store. They should have been doing this is phases so less tanks down at any one time so there would be no disruption like this.
Unfortunately, if you add ethanoled gasoline to a UST with MTBE'd gasoline that had a bit of water at the tank bottom (most do), phase separation would be experienced. This would screw up every car engine that filled up. So the trick is to run down your old stock very low, then check for and remove any tank bottom water, then add the ethanoled gasoline, and check for phase separation within 24 hours.
Now if you had pointed out that this baloney should be taken care of at the fuel terminal tanks, then I agree with the ineptitude, but problem is ethaonl is more corrosive and doesn't store well, so it get added at the loading rack, not the barge or pipeline.
LukOil stations running out sounds like stupidity as most of these stations used to be Getty stations, and Getty is one of the few East Coast marketers that have been using subsidized ethanol for years already. They should have had all the equipment and methods in place for the switch.
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Re: Gas shortages hit the East Coast
by Starvid » Fri 21 Apr 2006, 08:31:04
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Torjus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '
')For example during the last couple of years oil has gone from $20 to $70. Bread, milk and meat are as cheap as ever.
')For example during the last couple of years oil has gone from $20 to $70. Bread, milk and meat are as cheap as ever.
The consumer end has experienced lower prices, but that will probably change. The reason for this is, to my knowledge, that the store-chains have used their market power to negotiate ever lower prices with the farmers. My father is a sheep farmer and the price on sheep meat has gone down significantly the last years.
As more and more trade barriers have been removed, cheap the store-chains can use cheap imports to push the prices down.
But when the oil gets expensive enough that will change. To see any significant change I guess we need at least $200 a barrel.
An example:
Today, cheap Australian sheep meat is dumped on the European market. That is a long way for shipping a little meat. As the oil gets more expensive, so will these shipments.
Equally in Norway (Chicken this time): Chicken are being transported from the rest of the country to one facility in the south, where they are slaughtered. After packing they are shipped back again to places hundreds of miles away into the stores. The newest introduction in this process around here is the JIT philosophy, which makes for even more shipments.
With all that transportation in the picture, of course the food will become more expensive soon, a lot of fuel is involved. When the market starts realizing these fuel-prices are permanent, they will probably adjust their prices upwards too.
Without the cheap Australian sheep meat, the power in the market will possibly shift over again to local farmers and my father will make more money again.
A little long, and a little off topic. Just had to.
Torjus Gaaren
Interesting.
But I'd like to see som studies and statistics on the oil-food connection. Until we have that we only have conflicting personal experience.
My cousins are farmers. They have sheep and also grow stuff (barley? Whatever.). When I asked them how rising diesel and fertilizer price were going to affect them they looked at me like I was insane. Then they told me that the biggest extra cost would be extra cost for commuting to work in the city (they have two jobs, can't live on farming anymore).
The vast amount of their income from farming is EU subsidies and the vast amount of their expenses is labor and taxes on labor. Fuel and fertilizer are marginal events which don't effect much of anything.
So, we need statistics.
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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