Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Why be afraid?

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby emailking » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 01:11:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', '
')God is uncaused and uncreated - He simply exists.

How do we know this? Well, we know that from nothing, nothing comes. So if there was ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence then nothing would have ever come to exist. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been existing. That ever-existing thing is what we call God.


Why can't this logic apply to the universe itself?

Why can't the universe be uncaused and uncreated, it simply exists?

Perhaps the universe could be God? That wouldn't really fall into line with how I understand God, having been raised a Christian.

You're playing with semantics. The universe obviously exists and it is a mystery indeed. We know the big bang happened but there is nothing close to a consensus as to what caused it. (or if the notion of "cause" even has meaning at this point as time itself was literally created at this moment)

Theists believe it was caused by God and then stop. This just shifts the uncertainty.
User avatar
emailking
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 742
Joined: Sat 11 Mar 2006, 04:00:00

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby Colorado-Valley » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 01:39:04

I think the Devil made us use up all the oil.
User avatar
Colorado-Valley
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon 16 Aug 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby Lighthouse » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 01:57:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Colorado-Valley', 'I') think the Devil made us use up all the oil.


No, no, no, no, NO. You are completely wrong. Oil is made by the devil and comes straight out of hell.

:twisted:
User avatar
Lighthouse
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu 02 Mar 2006, 04:00:00

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby cynthia » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 01:57:30

Perhaps a Religious thread is in the works?
Are there any nays?
cynthia
User avatar
cynthia
Coal
Coal
 
Posts: 412
Joined: Sun 29 May 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby EarthAbides » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 01:57:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Colorado-Valley', 'I') think the Devil made us use up all the oil.


I think it was god.

"Go forth and multiply"
User avatar
EarthAbides
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon 04 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby Carlhole » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 02:06:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')img]http://www.thegodmovie.com/images/DVD-front125x177s5k.jpg[/img]

The God Who Wasn't There

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The God Movie', 'B')owling for Columbine did it to the gun culture.

Super Size Me did it to fast food.

Now The God Who Wasn't There does it to religion.

Holding modern Christianity up to a bright spotlight, this bold and often hilarious new film asks the questions few dare to ask.

Your guide through the world of Christendom is former fundamentalist Brian Flemming, joined by such luminaries as Jesus Seminar fellow Robert M. Price, professor Richard Dawkins, author Sam Harris and historian Richard Carrier.

See the movie the Los Angeles Times calls "provocative - to put it mildly."

Hold on to your faith. It's in for a bumpy ride.


BitTorrent Download
Carlhole
 
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby katkinkate » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 04:21:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'W')hat is there to fear, when God is in control? I've learned quickly that all things in this world, must come to pass. Just think about these verses........


That's all well and good if you recognise some authority in the source of the quotes, however I feel taking stories from a collection of myths, legends and half-remembered history as literal truth and a guide to the future a little .. dangerous and even perhaps naive and emotionally immature.

A human has to learn to be in control of their own mind and actions in order to grow up. Dogmatic religion tends to freeze people at the level of children looking to their parents for guidance, instructions and permission to live. Which I concede is probably why its so popular. So many adults don't want to have to make their own decisions; they like having someone else tell them what to do and what is right.
Kind regards, Katkinkate

"The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops,
but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."
Masanobu Fukuoka
User avatar
katkinkate
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat 16 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby linlithgowoil » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 06:32:01

unfortunately, christianity has been ruined mainly by peole living in america who have turned it into a business.

of course, the actual teachings of jesus directly accounted in the bible are excellent guides on how to live a good life, i dont think anyone woudl dispute that jesus was a great man with some very wise teachings. unfortunately, and as with most things, its all been corrupted by men.

with regard to the existence of god, i was reading a philosophy of religion book and it had an interesting argument.

it said that 'things' (people, tables, cars etc.) either owe their existence to another thing, or they do not owe their existence to another. it said that God was the one thing that did not owe its existence to another, whilst everything else relied on something else for its existence.

obviously, you cant just keep going back and back and saying that this thing relied on another forever, so logically speaking, you would get back to the original 'thing' that does not owe its existence to anything else. that thing is God.

Its an irresisistable argument really.

Of course, the 'bearded guy living in the sky' is nonsense, but there must be some kind of force that caused the universe to exist, in my opinion.
User avatar
linlithgowoil
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon 20 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: Scotland

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby rogerhb » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 06:45:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('linlithgowoil', 'O')f course, the 'bearded guy living in the sky' is nonsense, but there must be some kind of force that caused the universe to exist, in my opinion.


I think the thing that scares people the most is the idea that there is actually no purpose to life. It simply came it to being, and just 'is' (presumably that's the Clinton defintion of 'is'). Just being a vehicle to DNA does not seem much of a mission in life.

Why are we here? Because we're not not here.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
User avatar
rogerhb
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4727
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby EndDays » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 11:53:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elocs', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jsb1969', 'T')he discussion regarding god has been around for quite sometime.
Is there a god? Is there no god? Belief in god can be a vehicle to
"spiritul" and "mystical" places, but the difference between "god"
and "no god" is not at all important. If you jump off a tall building,
neither one of them will save you. Get it?


This is the bit that fascinates me: there are people who live through a tornado when it goes around their house and you hear them cry, "Praise God, praise Jesus, He saved us." But then next door you have the family with the little children who were all killed. Evidently they were either not worthy to be spared or it is the blanket explanation that it is a "mystery" and that only God understands it.

Or you have the 5 year old girl who is raped, tortured and murdered by a pedophile. God "allowed" it to happen and it is a "mystery" or God knew something worse was going to happen to her so He allowed her to die this way. What exactly might be worse?
I mean, God has the perfect setup because everything good is from God and if it is not good, then it is not from God. The perfect "heads I win, tails you lose" scenerio.


I've struggled with the same questions, myself. But then I realized I shouldn't be putting the blame on God, instead it should lie with the perpetrator! You're assuming that people are innocent and have done nothing wrong, but we're not innocent. How many times can people break God's Commandments before Justice is served? We live in a fallen, sinful world where we're all guilty of sin against God. Its obvious that something is horribly wrong with this world, given the life and death struggle we all face.

Look at the sin we've committed with Peak Oil. We completely and irresponsibly used oil in a greedy, capitalist, consumption-based lifestyle and now we're going to reap the consequences.

Yet God is patient with us and extremely loving in that He gives us the opportunity to repent and be forgiven through Faith in His Son, Jesus Christ who spent six hours dying a brutal death on a cross so we can be reunited with God.

All I can say is how important this is, the rest is up to you.

ED
Have you ever thought about God and eternity? What will you say when you stand before our Creator after you die?

www.livingwaterscanada.com/good
User avatar
EndDays
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby elocs » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 15:17:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elocs', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jsb1969', 'T')he discussion regarding god has been around for quite sometime.
Is there a god? Is there no god? Belief in god can be a vehicle to
"spiritul" and "mystical" places, but the difference between "god"
and "no god" is not at all important. If you jump off a tall building,
neither one of them will save you. Get it?


This is the bit that fascinates me: there are people who live through a tornado when it goes around their house and you hear them cry, "Praise God, praise Jesus, He saved us." But then next door you have the family with the little children who were all killed. Evidently they were either not worthy to be spared or it is the blanket explanation that it is a "mystery" and that only God understands it.

Or you have the 5 year old girl who is raped, tortured and murdered by a pedophile. God "allowed" it to happen and it is a "mystery" or God knew something worse was going to happen to her so He allowed her to die this way. What exactly might be worse?
I mean, God has the perfect setup because everything good is from God and if it is not good, then it is not from God. The perfect "heads I win, tails you lose" scenerio.


I've struggled with the same questions, myself. But then I realized I shouldn't be putting the blame on God, instead it should lie with the perpetrator! ED


If I come upon somebody who is about to murder a 5 year old girl and I have it totally within my power to stop him, but choose choose not to, I am certainly not to blame for what he will do, but am I blameless? Yet the Christian god can make that choice and he is blameless because his ways are a "mystery" and beyond our understanding. If I were to make that coice I would be considered to be scum.

With a nic like "EndDays" you should be happy now, celebrating all the wars, and rumors of war, the natural disasters and famine. Are they not all signs of the imminent return of Jesus to catch you up in the clouds? Feel free to rape and destroy the earth because you won't be here long anyways. But what if it is a post-Trib "rapture"? That will be a nasty time and not so fun for those that thought they would be saved from any suffering. Of course, god could save you, but he "chooses" not to. Just another "mystery".
elocs
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat 04 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby Atlantean_Relic » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 18:01:28

Here is my Belief on the matter. God will not grab the faithful before his wrath is unleashed. So we are not spared from war,famine, and death. We are spared from giant Scorpion locust and hail stones the size of Buicks. My opinion is what makes us better than those in the past fed to lions? Nothing and quite frankly we are worse. We have not only allowed the money changer into the temple we have giving them priesthood. God Will not spare the faithful from the Ugly world . He will spare them from the bad LSD trip that is his wrath. So, My view is any man that claims no fear is either ignorant or a boaster. Tell me of your bravery when the idea of eating your child becomes a serious because of starvation. Or when you spend the rest of your life in a state of panic because you are being hunted for your beliefs or unbelief. Remember the beast will demand worship of himself from the all in the world. I joke with myself that if the Biblical end times come I'll be somehow stuck in hiding with a hard atheist. But, if you feel you are worthy of being spared and it gives you comfort, go with it. Just be prepared. So that's my ten cents on this matter.
User avatar
Atlantean_Relic
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Mon 24 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Location: North of Id, west of Oz, and infront of the damned rabbit

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby EndDays » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 19:04:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Atlantean_Relic', 'H')ere is my Belief on the matter. God will not grab the faithful before his wrath is unleashed. So we are not spared from war,famine, and death. We are spared from giant Scorpion locust and hail stones the size of Buicks. My opinion is what makes us better than those in the past fed to lions? Nothing and quite frankly we are worse. We have not only allowed the money changer into the temple we have giving them priesthood. God Will not spare the faithful from the Ugly world . He will spare them from the bad LSD trip that is his wrath. So, My view is any man that claims no fear is either ignorant or a boaster. Tell me of your bravery when the idea of eating your child becomes a serious because of starvation. Or when you spend the rest of your life in a state of panic because you are being hunted for your beliefs or unbelief. Remember the beast will demand worship of himself from the all in the world. I joke with myself that if the Biblical end times come I'll be somehow stuck in hiding with a hard atheist. But, if you feel you are worthy of being spared and it gives you comfort, go with it. Just be prepared. So that's my ten cents on this matter.


I'm with you on this one.

Elocs, you made alot of assumptions about my beliefs. I in no way intend to rape and pillage this Earth, in fact I'm very responsible.

I also fully expect to be here through the tribulation. Many Christians have the idea that they'll be removed, but I don't think so. They've assumed the scripture explaining the "Rapture" events will happen before the Tribulation, but I think it'll happen at the middle or most likely at the end.

With what has happened to Christian martyrs in history, it makes no sense to be removed before the suffering begins.

ED
Last edited by EndDays on Sun 16 Apr 2006, 19:23:36, edited 1 time in total.
Have you ever thought about God and eternity? What will you say when you stand before our Creator after you die?

www.livingwaterscanada.com/good
User avatar
EndDays
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby coyote » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 19:18:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'I') in way intend to rape and pillage this Earth

I will fight to stop you. Your irrational beliefs do not give you the right to destroy what remains of this garden, which belongs to all of us and not just you.
Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent in any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
User avatar
coyote
News Editor
News Editor
 
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sun 23 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Location: East of Eden
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby EndDays » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 19:24:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', 'I') in way intend to rape and pillage this Earth

I will fight to stop you. Your irrational beliefs do not give you the right to destroy what remains of this garden, which belongs to all of us and not just you.


Read what I posted, there was a word missing.

ED
User avatar
EndDays
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby coyote » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 19:29:10

I replied before you edited your post. I'm glad to know that's what you meant.
Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent in any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
User avatar
coyote
News Editor
News Editor
 
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sun 23 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Location: East of Eden

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby EndDays » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 19:32:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'I') replied before you edited your post. I'm glad to know that's what you meant.


I'm glad you pointed that out!

ED
User avatar
EndDays
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun 13 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby Lighthouse » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 20:14:43

I like it here. It's good fun reading your posts.

Sounds like the woman who asked her husband, looking at the burning house, why he did not put the milk back in the fridge.
User avatar
Lighthouse
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu 02 Mar 2006, 04:00:00

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby skiwi » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 21:00:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')img]http://www.thegodmovie.com/images/DVD-front125x177s5k.jpg[/img]

The God Who Wasn't There

BitTorrent Download


Thanks mate, nice doco. Least I got something positive outta this crap religious thread
Let us make him who shall nourish and sustain us. What shall we do to be invoked; to be remembered in the earth.
We have tried with our first creatures but we could not make them venerate us.
So let us try to make obedient respectful beings who shall
User avatar
skiwi
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon 23 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Frost Free in New Zealand
Top

Re: Why be afraid?

Unread postby elocs » Sun 16 Apr 2006, 22:21:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EndDays', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Atlantean_Relic', 'H')ere is my Belief on the matter. God will not grab the faithful before his wrath is unleashed. So we are not spared from war,famine, and death. We are spared from giant Scorpion locust and hail stones the size of Buicks. .


I'm with you on this one.

Elocs, you made alot of assumptions about my beliefs. I in no way intend to rape and pillage this Earth, in fact I'm very responsible.

I also fully expect to be here through the tribulation. Many Christians have the idea that they'll be removed, but I don't think so. They've assumed the scripture explaining the "Rapture" events will happen before the Tribulation, but I think it'll happen at the middle or most likely at the end.

With what has happened to Christian martyrs in history, it makes no sense to be removed before the suffering begins.

ED


My assumptions were based upon the nic you chose, "EndDays", and that most of the Christians who believe we are in the "end days, or times" and who believe in the "Rapture" believe in a pre-Tribulation Rapture. You would be hard pressed to find a lot being even mentioned about a post-Tribulation Rapture.
All of the publicity, novels, hoopla, and preaching from the pulpit is nearly all about a pre-Trib Rapture and those who will be left behind. It is ever so much more dramatic and great for scaring people into believing. The pre-Trib people are not responsible in their attitude towards the earth and anything they can do to hurry things along, well in their eyes, all the better.

Thirty years ago I belonged to a church that was very big about prophecy and the pre-Trib Rapture. So I set out to back up my belief in a pre-Trib Rapture and to be able to defend those beliefs using the Bible, not reading Hal Lindsy or Timothy LaHaye. I read and studied all of the scriptures from the Old and New Testament that are strung together to make the doctrine of "The Rapture", using Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and studying the original language also. The biggest fly in the ointment for all of this is that although I wanted to prove the pre-Trib Rapture, I went at it with an open mind, which is a big no-no when dealing with Christian doctrine.

I came through on the other side. The current doctrine of the Rapture, in all of its flavors (pre, mid, post Trib), pretty much came about in the early 1800s and really took off in the last 40 years. It makes little consideration for prophecy that was fulfilled in the first century. It is a great tool for scaring people into accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior so they will not be "LEFT BEHIND!!!" After serious study I also found that a lot of scriptures have to be twisted, tortured, and forced together to come up with the doctrince of the Rapture. After time, what really bothered me was the attitude and mindset of the vast majority of people who believe in a pre-Trib Rapture of taking joy in the bad that happened on earth because it was a "sign of the end times" and the imminent return of Jesus to Rapture (a word not found in the Bible, by the way) them out of this world and away from all trouble. Therefore, they feel free to abuse the earth however they like in order to hurry and help things along.

There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of god or gods. Religious belief is a matter of faith and requires not proof. There is plenty of evidence for a nonreligious person to use to justify their not wanting to have anything to do with religion. Christians will argue that there is a god because the Bible is the "Word of God" and says there is a god, so there must be a god and what the Bible says is true because it is the "Word of God". Circular reasoning, right?

Religion is a comfort for many and if it helps get you through the night, then that's fine. It is though, entirely possible for somebody who is even an atheist not to be afraid about PO and its consequences. After all, doesn't god help those who help themselves? Well, actually--no, and that is a totally unscriptural idea because if you can help yourself, why do you need god?
I'll opt for being prepared and unafraid, god or no god.
elocs
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat 04 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Location: La Crosse, Wisconsin
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Medical Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron