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Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 13:17:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'H')alf of these are weighted heavily toward european preferences for things like: public health care, education, street crime, the current attitude toward political dissent, and environmental issues. If you do not worry about that stuff, it completely changes the index.


Ignoring the subjective bent of an index for a minute, what exactly else is there to worry about? That index pretty much sums up civilization, IMHO. "Numbers of cars in garage" does not.
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."

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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby clv101 » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 13:30:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'P')ersonally, I would consider a nation's suicide rate to be a useful indicator of that nation's population's happiness. Clearly the people of Europe are not significantly happier than the people of the United States.


Story from yesterday:

Suicide rate falls to record low
The suicide rate in England is at a record low, official figures reveal. The government-backed report shows there were 8.5 deaths per 100,000 people in the population over the period 2002 to 2004.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4905964.stm
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby UnpreparedMF » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 14:23:45

Oilfreeandhappy,

I will have to challenge you to a duel (in Monty Python fake french accent) for using the same quote as a signature!!!

Oh, and though I love Chicago, I gotta agree with you that Denver should be higher...
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby lateStarter » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 15:13:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'S')an Diego, California, probably has more peakoil.com posters than any other city anywhere. I have no idea why, just something I noticed. And I'd rather be here than in Lithuania or Belgium.


That should explain everything to you then! Somehow, everyone in SD who is semi-aware knows they are f*cked when TSHTF.. Of course you would rather be in SD NOW than in Lithuania, but when TSHTF, you will wish you were in Lithuania. They have been through more sh*t in recent memory than you and all your surf crew could ever imagine (but you will get to experience first hand soon - with, might I add, no prior experience)! BTW, I would rather be in Lithuania than in Belgium when TSHTF.

Best...
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 15:20:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'S')an Diego, California, probably has more peakoil.com posters than any other city anywhere. I have no idea why, just something I noticed. And I'd rather be here than in Lithuania or Belgium.


That should explain everything to you then! Somehow, everyone in SD who is semi-aware knows they are f*cked when TSHTF.. Of course you would rather be in SD NOW than in Lithuania, but when TSHTF, you will wish you were in Lithuania. They have been through more sh*t in recent memory than you and all your surf crew could ever imagine (but you will get to experience first hand soon - with, might I add, no prior experience)! BTW, I would rather be in Lithuania than in Belgium when TSHTF.

Best...
Cool then, we agree on Belgium.
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby lateStarter » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 15:36:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'S')an Diego, California, probably has more peakoil.com posters than any other city anywhere. I have no idea why, just something I noticed. And I'd rather be here than in Lithuania or Belgium.


That should explain everything to you then! Somehow, everyone in SD who is semi-aware knows they are f*cked when TSHTF.. Of course you would rather be in SD NOW than in Lithuania, but when TSHTF, you will wish you were in Lithuania. They have been through more sh*t in recent memory than you and all your surf crew could ever imagine (but you will get to experience first hand soon - with, might I add, no prior experience)! BTW, I would rather be in Lithuania than in Belgium when TSHTF.

Best...
Cool then, we agree on Belgium.


Actually, we probably agree on more than you think... SD (like a lot of other places) is a great place to live if you are doing ok economically at the moment. I spent 45 years in the US, always never having to go without, so it left me with lots of time to appreciate the beauty of the country and the potential of its people.

With an unlimited personal budget and a slightly more enlightened political environment , I would still be there. I always encourage people I meet in my travels to visit the US, if they haven't already. The big downside to the US of A - you got to have wheels... Please tell me what your life in SD would be like if you didn't have a car... Can you even imagine it? Have you worked through the implications yet?

BTW, wrt transportation costs (alluded to in an earlier post about grading scale for best cities) - I get around 7 days/week (work and social) using public transportation (bus, tram, metro) for about $25/month.
Last edited by lateStarter on Fri 14 Apr 2006, 15:46:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 15:46:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', '
')Please tell me what your life in SD would be like if you didn't have a car... Can you even imagine it? Have you worked through the implications yet?
For me, life without a car would not be possible because I go to different places every day, all too time consuming to be feasible with public transport as it now exists. The implications could be very bad, I know. I suppose emmigrating to Lithuania will be out of the question.
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby lateStarter » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 15:57:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', '
')Please tell me what your life in SD would be like if you didn't have a car... Can you even imagine it? Have you worked through the implications yet?
For me, life without a car would not be possible because I go to different places every day, all too time consuming to be feasible with public transport as it now exists. The implications could be very bad, I know. I suppose emmigrating to Lithuania will be out of the question.


They would probably appreciate your sense of humour! Hope you don't take this as a personal attack.... I just feel so bad for the people living in the US in the years ahead. My son (25) still lives in Florida. I really feel that with good leadership (I know - not currently available in ANY country) the US could pull through this with minimal grief. So sad...

I just think that other countries that have actually experienced hardships in the last 50 years have a chance of getting through this easier than a country that has only known 'good and plenty'. Sadly, even Poland (at least Warsaw) is turning into a mini USA thanks to global marketing...

Regards
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby Wildwell » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 16:14:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'H')alf of these are weighted heavily toward european preferences for things like: public health care, education, street crime, the current attitude toward political dissent, and environmental issues. If you do not worry about that stuff, it completely changes the index.


Ignoring the subjective bent of an index for a minute, what exactly else is there to worry about? That index pretty much sums up civilization, IMHO. "Numbers of cars in garage" does not.


Yep, most of the cities at the top have very high quality public transport, are very civic in nature and conservative places with low crime, high education, high GDP per capita and low congestion.

The Swiss are the keenest rail travellers in the world, with 47 trips per year each. Switzerland has about 20,300 km (12,600 miles) of public transport network, of which the Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) owns a total of 3,000 km (1,860 miles). This is complemented by another 2,000 (1240 miles) run by private railways. There are also 150 km (93 miles) of mountain railway lines (cogwheel and funiculars). The trains are carefully integrated with other forms of transport - buses and boats.

Rail 2000 plans include constructing several massive tunnels, one longer than the channel tunnel in the alps to rid Switzlerlands roads of heavy trucks.

So no, cars do not equal civilisation. Moreover almost all thier public transport is powered from renewable sources.
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby lateStarter » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 16:34:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', 'T')hat should explain everything to you then! Somehow, everyone in SD who is semi-aware knows they are f*cked when TSHTF.. Of course you would rather be in SD NOW than in Lithuania, but when TSHTF, you will wish you were in Lithuania. They have been through more sh*t in recent memory than you and all your surf crew could ever imagine (but you will get to experience first hand soon - with, might I add, no prior experience)! BTW, I would rather be in Lithuania than in Belgium when TSHTF.Best...
I know it is fun to hate California, but face it: the entire state is surrounded by incredible bounty. The millions who live San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco are mere miles away from the greatest Garden on the face of the earth--the Central Valley of California. There will always be water (the dams and irrigation canals that grow the food are are gravity fed) Production may decline with fertilizer shortages, but there will alway be enough for us. It is the rest of the United States that will get cut off without cheap transportation. twisted:


Actually, I was under the impression that most of the water used for irrigation in CA, came from elsewhere... Correct me if I'm wrong. Also, seem to recall lots of recent articles stating that the snowpack in many places that 'feed' CA were running below average lately. And just for the record, I am not hating on CA... It was a great place to be a 'few' years ago...
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 21:36:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clv101', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'P')ersonally, I would consider a nation's suicide rate to be a useful indicator of that nation's population's happiness. Clearly the people of Europe are not significantly happier than the people of the United States.


Story from yesterday:

Suicide rate falls to record low
The suicide rate in England is at a record low, official figures reveal. The government-backed report shows there were 8.5 deaths per 100,000 people in the population over the period 2002 to 2004.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4905964.stm


I don't believe I mentioned England has having a suicide rate comparable to the rest of mainland Europe.

There appears to be some cultural difference between England/Norway and the rest of Europe. I'm not going to hazard a guess.

If my logic is off, remember, I haven't slept in 41 hours.
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby Kingcoal » Fri 14 Apr 2006, 23:13:38

I have a Chinese friend that travels back and forth between China and the US several times a year. He lives in Philadelphia and absolutely loves it. He married a polish girl and settled down there. He is always trying to get me to travel to China with him to see the sites. I like Philly also, it's a sleeper. It has a bad reputation, never makes "best city lists." Based on my tastes, it looks like I should turn this list upside down!
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby lorenzo » Sat 15 Apr 2006, 09:11:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ercer’s study is based on detailed assessments and evaluations of 39 key quality of living determinants, grouped in the following categories:

* Political and social environment (political stability, crime, law enforcement, etc.)
* Economic environment (currency exchange regulations, banking services, etc.)
* Socio-cultural environment (censorship, limitations on personal freedom, etc.)
* Medical and health considerations (medical supplies and services, infectious diseases, sewage, waste disposal, air pollution, etc.)
* Schools and education (standard and availability of schools, etc.)
* Public services and transportation (electricity, water, public transport, traffic congestion, etc.)
* Recreation (restaurants, theatres, cinemas, sports and leisure, etc.)
* Consumer goods (availability of food/daily consumption items, cars, etc.)
* Housing (housing, household appliances, furniture, maintenance services, etc.)
* Natural environment (climate, record of natural disasters)


This explains it. It's basically a political swipe at the US. Has nothing to do with how the people in a given city like it. . Half of these are weighted heavily toward european preferences for things like: public health care, education, street crime, the current attitude toward political dissent, and environmental issues. If you do not worry about that stuff, it completely changes the index.

Also, setting the index with New York being 100? Europeans typically think of NY as the prototypical American city, which is obviously silly.



Some remarks:

1. What criteria would you use to talk about quality of life if not the ones used by Mercer? Please give some examples.

2. Mercer Consulting is an American company, founded in 1937, one of the largest consulting firms and a very American one. It's not a creative intellectual euro-leftist think tank or something like that. It's a pretty ordinary typically American consulting buro. So why do you think such a very American consulting firm would create a political swipe at the U.S.?

3. I think that at least half of all criteria used by Mercer can be considered to be prototypically American criteria: crime, law enforcement, Freedom (twice: yadayada "Freedom"), availability of consumer goods, etc... In my opinion, the study is biased in favor of American cities.

4. The fact that New York is chosen as the index has nothing to do with Europeans' perceptions, since this is a study made by Americans, for Americans, using American criteria. Keep Euros out of this please.
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby ClassicSpiderman » Sat 15 Apr 2006, 12:18:01

I currently live in Calgary (#25) whereas I used to live in Ottawa (#21). Now, I lived in downtown Ottawa on a street where there were always drug dealers, drunk homeless bums and hookers everywhere. But other than that, it was great :) Being a single young man I could sow my wild oats and enjoy the nightlife.

I now live in the Northern suburbs in Calgary with adequate access to many amenities within walking distance. Access to public transport is adequate but is overwhelmed due to high demand during the peak commute hours.

I visited San Francisco (#28 ) last year. If I were a rich man, I would love to own a house or condo near Fisherman's Wharf. I love sea food as well. It also has the best temperate weather in North America.

I've been to Toronto (#16) a few times, but you couldn't pay me to live there now. Sure when I was a kid, I was impressed by its skyscrapers and bright lights but you have to be a gazillionaire to live anywhere that's walkable. People literally commute 90 minutes each way to their jobs. Toronto is Canada's version of the American mega-city. When the peak oil effects are fully realized Toronto will become hell on earth.

I'm surprised Montreal placed so high at #22. Sure, housing is fairly cheap for this cosmopolitan metropolis, but there is a lot of unemployment. Quebec is the most highly unionized and social democratic region in North America. I had a great-great uncle who owned property on Ste. Catherine street about 100 years ago--started out working in a shoe repair store and retired a very very rich man.

It doesn't surprise me that 3 of the top 10 are cities in Switzerland. In my book, Switzerland is God's country--perfect democratic system (every law must be passed by popular vote), great civil defense program (these guys wouldn't even feel the effects of a nuclear war) and guns subsidized by the government (every man has an assault rifle in his home--why do you think Hitler dared not invade THAT country???). Switzerland kicks A**.
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby Carlhole » Wed 19 Apr 2006, 00:32:39

Men's Journal: Portland best place to live; Hood River best place to play

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Portland Business Journal', ' ')Men's Journal magazine says Portland is the best place to live and Hood River is the most active town in the United States.

Plus, the magazine -- a general interest, active lifestyle magazine with a focus on adventure, travel, equipment, sports, fitness, health, style and ideas -- reports in its April issue now on the stands that Eugene is among the best place for singles to meet and Bonanza in Klamath County is among the best hideouts for people who have had enough with big city living and crave utter solitude.

Men's Journal asked writers and editors to pick their favorite city or town to call home where you can live an active life of adventure for a feature the magazine calls "50 Best Places to Live."

Broken down into a variety of categories to appeal to a broad range of interests, the "Best of the Best" picks on the list features winners for the perfect combination of adventure, attractiveness and affordability, with Portland No. 1, followed by Austin, Texas; Boulder, Colo.; San Diego; and Burlington, Vt.


I've been thinking about moving there, even before the Men's Journal article appeared. I just like the West Coast better. But I can't stand the rat race of SoCal anymore (that's OC, PMS).

I've got a plan, too. But gotta finish school first.
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Re: Not one US city in the top-25 best cities of the world

Unread postby Doly » Wed 19 Apr 2006, 09:38:17

I understand the survey considers only the biggest cities of the world. Which is a pity, because I'd say the quality of life in really big cities (defined as more than 1,000,000 people) is generally lower than in smaller ones (about 100,000-200,000 people).
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