[PenultimateManStanding]

I recall you saying, Bart, that peak oil may cause people on the left and the right to get on the same page. Indeed, there have been examples of that and we don't need to rehash it. But here in the Peak Oil forum it just doesn't seem to be working out. The two sides are still busy demonizing the opposite side. The argument reaches insane levels of vitriol with smug self-assurance and very little genuine insight. I think that as the energy situation deteriorates we will see more of this finger-pointing, not less. The irony is that categories of political thinking are murkier than ever and it isn't exactly clear what the fuss is about. It gets to the point where the sides can recognize each other by buzz words, secret codes signifying identification with a group whose function is to oppose the other group, neither having much relationship to reality in any meaningful way. If you aren't inside this antagonism, you scratch your head and wonder what the hell they are talking about. Jonathan Swift would have had a field day with this nonsense.

[holmes]

yes it is and we havent even seen scarce resources yet. just wait. Massive population laods all dependent on a shrinking resource base.
this is all just a primer.

[PenultimateManStanding]

You realize that Michael Savage is a very good example of extreme right wing lunacy? I don't want to name names but there are some nasty lefties in here. It goes the same for both sides.

[lateStarter]

I agree... It used to be that people agreed what the problem was, but had a harder time agreeing on a solution. Now they can't even seem to agree on what the problem is. We are quickly approaching the level of 'white noise'. No further discussion we be possible - nothing but static...

[smiley]

I think that whole idea of people uniting in the face of adversity is just a Hollywood myth.

However what you do see in small groups is that when the situation gets desperate they tend to rely more of on a leader. They become more submissive to authority, hence you have less quarrels. That can give a false impression of unity.

However I am not sure whether that can be translated to a larger group of people, say a country.

And the fact that you have a strong leader doesn't mean he's leading in the right direction.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', ' ')We are quickly approaching the level of 'white noise'. No further discussion we be possible - nothing but static...

[holmes]

Im not too familiar with Michael Savage.
Well theres really nothing to do at this point. the hords are streaming in. any hope for sustainability is over at this point in time. The only way to have peace and sustainablity is to keep the human load low and consumption habits in check. Breed a people that cherish self sufficiency and ecological paradigm. Thats over. 100,000,000 was the cutoff for maintaining freedom and reducing finger pointing.
neo clasical economic sytem that disregards reality. All costs not calculated.
A elite greedy class that are traitors and are neo classicical economic cult members.
A low IQ lower class that has zero ecological common sense and cannot connect the dots and realize their programs are funded by a tax base that they are helping drive out and a resource base that is being sucked dry.
2.2 million acre a year open space loss in the US.
Millions are still coming in illegally and legally.

another group that believes Oil is abiotic.

basically God help us all.
the country was sold off.
communism and capitalism will leave nothing. Ecological Economics must replace them.
Both sides seek power not solutions.
next up: Soylent Green
hehe.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'I')m not too familiar with Michael Savage.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', 'I')m not too familiar with Michael Savage.

[Dreamtwister]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'I') think that whole idea of people uniting in the face of adversity is just a Hollywood myth.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dreamtwister', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'I') think that whole idea of people uniting in the face of adversity is just a Hollywood myth.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '
')Depends on the culture. The UK has the "Remember the Blitz" mentality which comes out once in a while where people to put aside their differences for a common cause.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

The UK has the "Remember the Blitz" mentality

Yer, 60 years ago. That generation is nearly gone.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Battle_Scarred_Galactico', '[')b]The UK has the "Remember the Blitz" mentality

Yer, 60 years ago. That generation is nearly gone.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

I'd say they were heavily outnumbered.

[bart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'T')he irony is that categories of political thinking are murkier than ever and it isn't exactly clear what the fuss is about... If you aren't inside this antagonism, you scratch your head and wonder what the hell they are talking about.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', ' ')
LOL! That's exactly it. I haven't been visiting many of the peakoil.com forums lately, so I haven't run into the polarization you're talking about.

[pedalling_faster]

the "you are expendable, i deserve to live like royalty" approach will not solve Peak Oil related problems.

2 examples -
* fire in San Diego a few years ago. destroyed thousands of acres, killed people. arson.
* erin brockovich movie about PG&E polluting the drinking water.

i'm choosing very public domain examples on purpose. don't want to give anybody any ideas.

those who have been treated as expendable, and find themselves with nothing to lose, & excluded from communities, will become far more creative than the examples listed.

you can have as many bullets as you want, you can build the fences as high as you want.

the only response to the situation that warrants the term SOLUTION is the inclusive approach.

i'm not saying circling the wagons and stocking up on "whiskey & gunpowder" is a bad idea.

i'm saying it's a good idea to give a family who has lost their home a place to stay and something constructive to do, after an interviewing process.

[Magus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bart', ' ')
LOL! That's exactly it. I haven't been visiting many of the peakoil.com forums lately, so I haven't run into the polarization you're talking about.

[anneliese-nyc]

I agre$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lateStarter', 'e')... It used to be that people agreed what the problem was, but had a harder time agreeing on a solution. Now they can't even seem to agree on what the problem is. We are quickly approaching the level of 'white noise'. No further discussion we be possible - nothing but static...