[Aaron]

This excellent book, which was later immortalized as a pretty bad Costner movie, contains three observations which I think are relevant here.

Set in post-collapse America, Postman follows the life of a regular guy and his adventures trying to survive in the new hostile world.

Point 1 - From the main character's point of view, (and pretty much everyone else), he doesn't really know what brought on the collapse. Things get dicey, and before he knows it, the life he knew has disappeared. In fact, we discover that the initial cause of the crisis becomes unimportant when compared to how America, and indeed the world, reacts to the crisis. Brin is suggesting that no matter how bad the events which lead to the crisis are, it is our lack of unity which dooms mankind. Unable to band together and work toward a solution, man sinks back into the violent and terrible times of his past.

Point 2 - The bad guys in the book are the Holnists. A brutal militia which pillages the remaining population, they provide a common enemy for the small villages & hamlets in the battle for survival. Some communities are able to resist by force, but most simply pay the required tribute. This common threat binds the small communities in the effort to resist their influence.

Point 3 - Quite by accident, Gordon finds a new way to support himself. He finds a postal jeep in the forest, and to survive, puts on the carriers old uniform. He finds that a simple but bold lie. of a restored US, combined with a bag of pre-collapse mail, are a virtual passport into the remaining communities. What begins as a survival strategy, grows as Gordon travels from town to town as "the postman". I won't spoil the ending... but it becomes clear, that it is the simple concept of service which restores hope for the hopeless. This idea of unselfish service unites the dispersed communities like nothing else could. Old timers weep, remembering the good ole days, while youngsters are amazed at this man, who isn't acting for simple personnel survival, like everyone they have ever met, but rather acts to benefit people he does not even know.

Our current culture behaves like a teenager who's parents are out of town. Invite over everyone you know, munch all the food, drink all the booze, trash the place. Who cares? The fridge automatically gets stocked again, and the booze refills as if by magic. (perhaps it's abiotic) And the maid cleans up the mess...

Maybe we deserve to be grounded...

And maybe, as in the postman, we need a common enemy, and a simple idea, to finally unite as a world, and emerge in our collective future, as adults.

[MadScientist]

America's best hope is a wakeup call.

A big enough jolt to start the war machine rolling.

A shock that brings people together for a common cause.

An event which causes us to put the country's future before ME.


It has happened before.


What troubles me is the lack of leadership in this direction. Gone is the concept of civil defense. 9/11 has left a bad taste in my mouth. It seems pretty clear to me that America's enemies are attacking our economy first....why no guidance from the government? Why no call for conservation and victory gardens? Maybe after the elections......

I just cant escape this nagging feeling we've been sold out

[MattSavinar]

Regarding the anti-depressants:

What is going to happen when those kids can no longer get their meds?

On a side note, I had heard that up to 50% of my law school class was on some form of anti-depressant. This was just a rumor from somebody who heard from somebody who worked in the health services office. Thus I can't verify it. But, I would not be surprised.

When I heard that (assuming it to be true) I thought,

"This really confirms that we have some deep problems. These are folks who have or are in the process of achieving the 'American Dream.' For so many of them to be on medication is indicative of a much greater problem."

Matt

[hymalaia]

Matt, you say on your website that before "peak oil" you strove for the "American Dream", and if not for Peak Oil, there is a likely-hood you would have achieved it. I'm curious, did you really think this would fulfill you? Or did you sense something wasn't right, but ignored it, thanks to your success...

I've always been somewhat of an outcast. I even have a diagnosed social "disorder" (whatever the hell that means). It comes as no suprise to me to see that our way of living is unsustainable, and likely doomed.

Personally, with kids my age (I'm 21), I think it has something to do with being born in the 80's. They say that the first few years of development are most critical for the brain. Well I can't think of a worse environment for this development to take place for dealing with peak oil. We've known nothing but success and economic boom times in our entire lives. Our one war was a cinch (minus delpeted uranium, of course, but we didn't know about that). Even further, our parents were working overtime securing $$ for our futures, (supposedly) that they forgot about right now, a far more critical time for them to be around. So they compensated that guilt by spending some of their excess cash on us, further f*cking is up. Personally, I don't think these kids are going to bother "dealing" with peak oil. I don't know if I myself will even bother, and I've contempleted the best ways to off myself...one thing modern society has left us with is no shortage of high places from which to jump...(many found that out 9-11...).

That said, most kids and perhaps most people, rather than dealing with trying to survive post peak or killing themselves, will do what our materialist self-centered culture advocates is the only logical choice: live out your sickest most repressed fantasy (whatever that may be) as this is your final chance. This is where one should pray that religion does it's job here, but that's not exactly something that gets taken seriously amongst my generation. Their only religion: Immediate gratification.

btw...I don't hate my generation, despite the sound of this post. I have great sympathy for them. If anyone is too blame it's the baby-boomers for doing such a poor job as parents. But that's a different issue. You can't really hate people for being part of a group, but you can hate the ideals their group stands for...

[Chichis]

hymalaia, I'm 20, and I've sensed for quite a long time that something was "wrong". For years I've read the news and put together with my knowledge of evolution, human psychology, etc. When you think about what coniditions we evolved in compared to what we do now, it's obvious that it couldn't possibly be a clean transition. We're not "designed" to live in communities greater than say 500, or to have such an overabundence of food, or to work 40 hours a week in office, or all the bs that we spend our lives doing.

Thinking that just because we're smarter than the average animal we can deny our heritage, our evolution, is delusional. Man of the problems with modern society can be traced back to problems reconciling our evolution with our technology.

[gg3]

Aaron, interesting about The Postman. There was another science fiction story some years back about a comet hitting Earth or something like that, and one of the lead characters was a postman who resumed doing his rounds, and discovered that this brought people back together.

So I get the idea that the postman is an archetype of personal dedication to a kind of humble (in the sense of non-heroic) and mundane (in the sense of every-day) kind of service that's provided equally to all; and an archetype of the good things that our government is supposed to stand for and provide. And perhaps in both of those ways, an example: duty and service; consistency; good will.

We all recognize that modern Western people can be spoiled as hell. But also, when a crisis hits, they can be as caring and kind and dedicated as people anywhere else. I think the difference has to do with the excesses of the economy (complicated explanation omitted to save space). For example, someone here posted somewhere about an experiment with gorillas, where once they were given a large surplus of bananas, more than they could possibly eat, they started hoarding and fighting and doing other things that are similar to what spoiled Westerners do in good economic times.

So to that extent, the evils of consumer excess seem to be connected to something that's innate in primates. Probably something that, at another level, has adaptive value. For example, the desires for sex and for sweet foods are adaptive in times of lower population and unrefined foods; but in the modern context lead to overpopulation and ill health due to excess.

Thus far, humans have not developed a negative feedback mechanism connected to the concept of "enough." We have an economic paradigm that I call "thermo-max", by analogy with a hypothetical control for a household heating system whose operating algorithm is "when it gets warmer, add more heat." (By contrast with a thermo*stat*, whose operating algorithm is "when temperature is at or above X, stop adding more heat.")

The thermo-max economy can't last, and won't; and we're about to get a big lesson in "enough." We're all going to find out whether humans learn from it.

[Cool Hand Linc]

Would that be Lucifer's Hammer? I am reading that book currently. It was recommended as a good read. I'm only about 1/4 way through.

My dogs fight over food. I have a big feeder (2 actually) that are always full. They still fight over the food. I believe that when food was less abundant. Competion for food leads to a natural inborn competion. Survival of the fittest. Smart enough, or Strong enough, or fast enough. Whatever apply's at the moment.

Leaf, I feel it's personal greed. Greed is the biggest problem facing the world today. At many different levels. Its still greed.

[MattSavinar]

Truth be told, my version of the "American Dream" was a bit different than the two cars, big house, etc. . .

My life's passion was on the eradication of the drug war and prison industry.

I guess you could say my version of the "American Dream" more John Brown than John Rockafellar.

Matt

[MattSavinar]

So the answer to your question: I had figured that any society in which in locking people up 10,15, 20 years for 20 dollar drug transactions is a bedrock of the economy has some serious sick sh=t going on.

Matt

[gg3]

Yeah, Lucifer's Hammer sounds familiar. Though I think that's also the book where two of the underlying themes are "black people are bad and dangerous" and "mustard gas is good, especially when used on dangerous bad black people." But it also comes out in favor of nuclear power, which is refreshing. Too bad all that stuff occurs with a racist backdrop, but now you're forewarned & forearmed.

Matt, everyone here probably has their own version of "things about this society that are so counter-logical that they should be diagnostic for full-on psychosis." Drug war, yes. Discrimination in all its evil forms, yes, including most recently the marriage thrash (exactly isomorphic with the fight over inter-racial marriage forty years ago). Fundamentalist extremism, obviously. The list goes on. Hell, I'm sounding like a liberal!

And most of it, in one way or another, comes down to a form of greed and/or a form of laziness.