gg3 quote;
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')onte, clever ad-hominem but only half right. I'm not a hypochondriac, but neither will I eat bugs, a topic that Itch and I often joke about ("I'll trade you a pound of caterpillars for a half pound of fresh rabbit!":-). I haven't gotten sick with more than a three-day cold in over ten years, and those colds are usually pretty mild affairs once a year. And I even smoke (a pipe, only, but it's still tobacco).
PeakOil is You
Appliances: the necessary, the optional, and the execrable.
by MonteQuest » Sat 23 Oct 2004, 10:34:15
I never intended for that to be a personal attack, gg3. It just balantly appears that you have an "excessive" concern for cleanliness that is not shared by 99% of the people, and, in my opinion, it clouds your reasonable judgment. Driving your car to the store is more likely to kill or injure you than all of the little "critters" you fret over put together. Again, sorry. I just found it rather amusing.
In the future, I think those "clean-freak" issues will be of little concern to a hungry population. And like another poster mentioned, nobody I know of owns those appliances for any of the reasons you are worried about. They are "modern conveniences that save time" and are hardly necessary, especially in a post-peak world.
As for me, other than for checkups and injuries, I haven't needed to go to a doctor in over 30 years. I do not take medicines or drugs of any kind for anything whatsoever. I do wash my hands often.
In the 1840s, a guy by the name of Ignaz Semmelweis, demonstrated that washing your hands prevented the spread of childbirth fever. The germ theory of disease is the single most important contribution by the science of microbiology to the general welfare of the world's people, perhaps the single most important contribution of any modern scientific discipline. It also is the single most important contribution to the practice of modern medicine, essentially defining the term with the invention of antimicrobial chemotherapeutics.
At the time of Semmelweis' discovery, doctors would deliver babies without first washing their hands and, worse, would do so after performing autopsies on patients who had died from childbirth fever. This not only assured transmission, but biased that transmission so that the most virulent forms of the organism (i.e., those that killed women while they were still in the hospital) would be transmitted. They had no idea that there were little bugs on their hands looking for a new home.
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
-
MonteQuest - Expert
- Posts: 16593
- Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Westboro, MO
by Aaron » Sat 23 Oct 2004, 10:59:33
Bah...
As George Carlin said, "I swam in raw sewage." "You're all weak and pathetic..."
Sheltering yourself from most microbes weakens your immune system.
You hope to not come across any really nasty bugs, but will you compromise your resistance to more common bugs to avoid rare ones?
High risk activities, like delivering a baby for example, call for extra precaution of course, but generally being too clean minded is simply bad for you.
I read a piece recently from a doctor where he said one of the healthiest things you can do, is eat your nasal mucus. (ick) As disgusting as it may be, I'm sure he's quite correct. Microbes trapped in your mucus help build your bodies immune reaction. (Man that's disgusting)
Back to Carlin:
"Know when I wash my hands after using the bathroom?
When I piss on them."
As George Carlin said, "I swam in raw sewage." "You're all weak and pathetic..."
Sheltering yourself from most microbes weakens your immune system.
You hope to not come across any really nasty bugs, but will you compromise your resistance to more common bugs to avoid rare ones?
High risk activities, like delivering a baby for example, call for extra precaution of course, but generally being too clean minded is simply bad for you.
I read a piece recently from a doctor where he said one of the healthiest things you can do, is eat your nasal mucus. (ick) As disgusting as it may be, I'm sure he's quite correct. Microbes trapped in your mucus help build your bodies immune reaction. (Man that's disgusting)
Back to Carlin:
"Know when I wash my hands after using the bathroom?
When I piss on them."
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.
Hazel Henderson
Hazel Henderson
-
Aaron - Resting in Peace
- Posts: 5998
- Joined: Thu 15 Apr 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Houston
by frankthetank » Sat 23 Oct 2004, 12:52:35
gg3~
One step ahead of you... My deoderant is Organic Crap with none of the nasty stuff in it... The bad thing is that it needs to be applied A LOT!!!... My girlfriend hates it, but I keep wearing it!
58F House Temp?
I kept my townhouse, last winter, @ 50-55F ... i've got photos to prove it!.. Its not bad if you wear a stocking cap, long underwear, and slippers!
One step ahead of you... My deoderant is Organic Crap with none of the nasty stuff in it... The bad thing is that it needs to be applied A LOT!!!... My girlfriend hates it, but I keep wearing it!
58F House Temp?
I kept my townhouse, last winter, @ 50-55F ... i've got photos to prove it!.. Its not bad if you wear a stocking cap, long underwear, and slippers!
-
frankthetank - Light Sweet Crude
- Posts: 6202
- Joined: Thu 16 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Southwest WI
by frankthetank » Sat 23 Oct 2004, 12:55:56
edit please!!!
One more thing. This post is making me think more and more like the AMISH way of living. I live in Amish country so i'm well aware of their culture and how they do things. One thing they need to change...body odor! Maybe some smell good, but the ones i've been around don't.
One more thing. This post is making me think more and more like the AMISH way of living. I live in Amish country so i'm well aware of their culture and how they do things. One thing they need to change...body odor! Maybe some smell good, but the ones i've been around don't.
-
frankthetank - Light Sweet Crude
- Posts: 6202
- Joined: Thu 16 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: Southwest WI
re:
by duff_beer_dragon » Sat 23 Oct 2004, 13:06:41
I can't believe anyone is seriously suggesting a microwave in a post-peak anything scenario ; that is 100% completely nutso.
Oh, it might be more efficient electricly.......that means it's safe and ok to heat food with. Sure it is. Cooking something from the inside-out is perfectly normal. What takes about three hours slowcook in an oven now takes a minute and a half, but it's normal. If you leave teacakes in it for about 0.0084 parsecs longer than you should, they explode, but it's perfectly normal.........
I have tried food cooked in a microwave you know, it doesn't even taste right.
As for muppet there saying mobiles or cellphones don't feature microwaves (where do you think the feeling of having your brain heated from the inside-out comes from, where do they get folk like you eh?) -
just from a search I did there ( this isn't something I ever needed to look up online, I knew all about it before I started using the internet much ) -
"The Stewart Report (1), published in May, 2000, makes some sensible recommendations, but unfortunately some of its greyer areas are now being exploited by the industry to obfuscate the issue.
As yet unresolved is the question of adverse health impacts provoked by the contentious non-thermal effects of the low intensity, pulsed microwave radiation (MWR) used. For these effects are not taken into account in current safety guidelines (2), which simply restrict the intensity of the radiation to prevent tissue heating in excess of what the body's thermoregulatory mechanism can cope with….in the case of living systems (and only living ones) there are many reports over the past 30 years that MWR can exert non-thermal influences, at intensities well below those necessary to cause any detectable heating (3).
The purpose of this review is to introduce clinicians to the physics of mobile telephony and to explain how low-intensity, pulsed microwaves can affect living organisms, both thermally and non-thermally; and then to identify some of the reported biological impacts of exposure to this radiation, particularly those provoked by the contentious non-thermal effects.
Physics of Mobile Telephony
A base-station antenna typically radiates 60 W and a handset between 1 and 2 W (peak). The antenna of a handset radiates equally in all directions but a base-station produces a beam that is much more directional. In addition, the stations have subsidiary beams called side-lobes, into which a small fraction of the emitted power is channelled. Unlike the mean beam, these side-lobes are localized in the immediate vicinity of the mast, and, despite their low power, the power density can be comparable with that of the main beam much further away from the mast. At 150-200 m, for example, the power density in the main beam near ground level is typically tenths of a µW/cm (2).
A handset that is in operation also has a low-frequency magnetic field (EMF) associated, not with the emitted microwaves, but with surges of electric current from the battery that are necessary to implement "time division multiple access" (TDMA), the system currently used to increase the number of people who can simultaneously communicate with a base-station. With handsets that have an energy-saving discontinuous transmission mode (DTX), there is an even lower frequency pulsing at 2 Hz, which occurs when the user is listening but not speaking. "
http://www.cancer-health.org/
Oh, it might be more efficient electricly.......that means it's safe and ok to heat food with. Sure it is. Cooking something from the inside-out is perfectly normal. What takes about three hours slowcook in an oven now takes a minute and a half, but it's normal. If you leave teacakes in it for about 0.0084 parsecs longer than you should, they explode, but it's perfectly normal.........
I have tried food cooked in a microwave you know, it doesn't even taste right.
As for muppet there saying mobiles or cellphones don't feature microwaves (where do you think the feeling of having your brain heated from the inside-out comes from, where do they get folk like you eh?) -
just from a search I did there ( this isn't something I ever needed to look up online, I knew all about it before I started using the internet much ) -
"The Stewart Report (1), published in May, 2000, makes some sensible recommendations, but unfortunately some of its greyer areas are now being exploited by the industry to obfuscate the issue.
As yet unresolved is the question of adverse health impacts provoked by the contentious non-thermal effects of the low intensity, pulsed microwave radiation (MWR) used. For these effects are not taken into account in current safety guidelines (2), which simply restrict the intensity of the radiation to prevent tissue heating in excess of what the body's thermoregulatory mechanism can cope with….in the case of living systems (and only living ones) there are many reports over the past 30 years that MWR can exert non-thermal influences, at intensities well below those necessary to cause any detectable heating (3).
The purpose of this review is to introduce clinicians to the physics of mobile telephony and to explain how low-intensity, pulsed microwaves can affect living organisms, both thermally and non-thermally; and then to identify some of the reported biological impacts of exposure to this radiation, particularly those provoked by the contentious non-thermal effects.
Physics of Mobile Telephony
A base-station antenna typically radiates 60 W and a handset between 1 and 2 W (peak). The antenna of a handset radiates equally in all directions but a base-station produces a beam that is much more directional. In addition, the stations have subsidiary beams called side-lobes, into which a small fraction of the emitted power is channelled. Unlike the mean beam, these side-lobes are localized in the immediate vicinity of the mast, and, despite their low power, the power density can be comparable with that of the main beam much further away from the mast. At 150-200 m, for example, the power density in the main beam near ground level is typically tenths of a µW/cm (2).
A handset that is in operation also has a low-frequency magnetic field (EMF) associated, not with the emitted microwaves, but with surges of electric current from the battery that are necessary to implement "time division multiple access" (TDMA), the system currently used to increase the number of people who can simultaneously communicate with a base-station. With handsets that have an energy-saving discontinuous transmission mode (DTX), there is an even lower frequency pulsing at 2 Hz, which occurs when the user is listening but not speaking. "
http://www.cancer-health.org/
the frogurt is also cursed
- duff_beer_dragon
- Lignite
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Mon 04 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
- Location: the Village
by jpatti » Sat 23 Oct 2004, 13:38:04
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'R')e. germs and buried food storage: Go look up "anaerobic bacteria." Ever hear of botulism? Never mind, go ahead and bury food and encourage others to do it also, the world is overpopulated, that will help a little but every bit counts:-)
I don't think botulism is likely to grow in food simply because it is underground. You need anaerobic conditions and high enough pH for botulism.
I mean, yeah, botulism is in everything, you can't escape it. But it becomes deadly when it grows in the appropriate conditions and makes toxin. This is why home-canned food, canned by folks using old-time recipes rather than current recommendations, occassionally kills people. Even boiling the food after opening doesn't help - it kills the bacteria, but does not denature the toxin.
I've never heard of anyone getting botulism from buried food, even if buried improperly. I have heard of people getting it from canned food.
Anyway, there's no need to bury food in a non-ventilated situation. My root cellar is ventilated, as noted. It stays fairly cold in summer just sitting on the dirt/stone floor. It's be colder still buried...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')atti: Plunger in (whateve container) does not work. I tried that method also, using both a 5-gallon bucket and a 20-gallon drum. Requires enormous amounts of water and still doesn't get enough agitation to do the job effectively. The James is at least a well-proven and workable system, but I would suggest using warmer water and less detergent in order to make the rinse cycle work more efficiently.
I know people who do the plunger-in-the-washtub thing regularly ((on homesteading boards). I've not tested it myself.
Still, it seems significantly less work than a washboard would be.
I've washed clothes by hand, but just by hand. Only for a couple short periods of time. Jeans were much more of a pain than diapers. *Any* of these would be easier than doing it actually by hand.
I think the best way would probably be to go ahead and boil our laundry with soap first, let it cool, then use the James for agitation and rinsing.
In general, hand-powered washing systems work better if you wash more often rather than less often, i.e. don't wait for clothes to get really grimy before washing, wash them after one or two wearings.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')acuzzis: Yes, another execrable piece of dinosaur-wasting decadence that the world can do without. Except for people who need hydrotherapy as a medical matter, on prescription; but those are few and far between, and clincs have hydrotherapy tanks in any case.
Some folks have built wood-fired hottubs.
We've lived with only a shower for a few years where we are (this house was built before electricty). I think something in between a hot tub and a regular tub is a luxury I want. Something big enough that you can sit and actually be covered with water, but small enough that you can fill it regularly rather than pour chemicals in it. Probably about twice the size of a regular bathtub.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')ce boxes: I still get the impression that these are going to be problematic. On the other hand I may be mistaken. Empirical results would be interesting.
It's what they did before electricity, so there are results already. You use it differently than a fridge though. You don't keep piles of food in an icebox. You keep food alive in the garden or on the animal as long as possible. For storage, you dry or can. The icebox is basically just for cooling things and for short-term holding of leftovers (think finishing the leftovers at the very next meal). It's not used the way a fridge is today, to keep piles of things cold indefinetly.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ther room for improvement. Electrically powered clocks are unnecessary, and a clock in every room is unnecessary. Windup alarm clocks are available for as little as $10, or you can pay $50 and get a high quality version from Europe.
Yes, we have one. But it loses or gains time when kept wound, so we have to set it off an electric clock. here's a bit that adjusts how it keeps time, but it's not accurate enough... you move it one way and gain ten minutes a day, move it the other and lose 15. It's difficult to adjust properly.
Also, if all you had was a wind-up, you'd be sorta screwed the day you forgot to wind it. Even though it's my daily alarm clock, I forget to wind it fairly regularly.
I'll have to change it to 75 hz.
), and vegetables. It's time we start weening ourselves off of meat and dairy anyways because eating from that trophic level is much less efficient than eating the grain that feeds the cattle/cows that give the meat and milk.
