[shakespear1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'In which case you're lucky that nature is giving you an interest free loan, which you have no intention of repaying. ')

I would argue that even this loan is not Free. Hint: Katrina and Rita came to collect and were paid.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', '[')code]In which case you're lucky that nature is giving you an interest free loan, which you have no intention of repaying. [/code]

I would argue that even this loan is not Free. Hint: Katrina and Rita came to collect and were paid.

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'M')y conclusion is: Humans have inherent flaws in their genetic programming and the societal programming that arises as a result.

[gg3]

MacG, I'm quite aware that there have been and still are sustainable cultures. The problem I'm concerned with is that an unsustainable culture is about to crash the planet and the inertia behind it appears to be unstoppable, and the cultural shifts needed to reverse it are unlikely on a large enough scale. Also I'm familiar with memetics, maybe you missed the reference to it in my posting (I was also going to post a link to Dawkins, Chapter 11), though I haven't seen the book you linked to (yet).

If you have any specific & practical ideas that'll help reverse the inertia that's presently building toward a crash, I'm interested.

[rogerhb]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'E')verytime you rebuild a house after a fire you create employment and growth, and use resources to build it that must be paid for, unless you do all the work yourself and get the materials for free. In which case you're lucky that nature is giving you an interest free loan, which you have no intention of repaying. Even the informal economy needs inputs to sustain it.

[MacG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'M')acG, I'm quite aware that there have been and still are sustainable cultures. The problem I'm concerned with is that an unsustainable culture is about to crash the planet and the inertia behind it appears to be unstoppable, and the cultural shifts needed to reverse it are unlikely on a large enough scale. Also I'm familiar with memetics, maybe you missed the reference to it in my posting (I was also going to post a link to Dawkins, Chapter 11), though I haven't seen the book you linked to (yet).

If you have any specific & practical ideas that'll help reverse the inertia that's presently building toward a crash, I'm interested.

[gg3]

MacG, many of us here are coming to that conclusion. Depressing as hell: there are workable solutions to all of this but they aren't going to be implemented due to sheer stupidity and avarice and (etc.). So we dig in and hold on, and hope we're at a safe enough distance when it all blows up.

[Raxozanne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MattSavinar', 'W')hy population will never be steady state, at least not on a global level:
If each of the 10 kids also have 10 kids, that's 100 grandkids for family A.

Couple A are fiends who don't care about sustainabilty, so they decide to have 10 kids.

Coupbe B are advocates of sustainabililty, so they have 2 kids.

Each of Couple A's 10 kids has 10 kids.

Each of Coupble B's 2 kids have 2 kids.

So when the time comes for the grandkids' generations to fight over diminshing resources, which family is going to kill off which family?

Somebody is going to get their asses kicked and my money is on Family A wiping out Family B unles Family B manages to develop advanced killing technologies.

[Ancien_Opus]

This is the referred to as "The tragedy of the commons". Where the benefits go to an individual but the risk are shared by the community.

It explains basic ecological phenomena such as the impact of market hunting in the late 1800's (Passenger Pigeons & Buffalo), the cod collapse of the Grand Banks 1990's, and now global warming and resource depletion (especially metals & oil).

Privatize the benefits but socialize the risk. Sounds like a neocon sound bite.

[shakespear1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'Privatize the benefits but socialize the risk. ')

I like that.

[dbarberic]

A contracting economy (recession or depression) does not get politicians re-elected.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shakespear1', '[')code]Privatize the benefits but socialize the risk. [/code]

I like that.

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', 'M')acG, many of us here are coming to that conclusion. Depressing as hell: there are workable solutions to all of this but they aren't going to be implemented due to sheer stupidity and avarice and (etc.). So we dig in and hold on, and hope we're at a safe enough distance when it all blows up.