Ahh Yes, the drywall pushers. Dallas Vice busted some illegals for a coke deal. Only the coke tured out to be was crushed drywall.
You bring up a good point PMS about society being socialized to non-violence. I wonder how it would shake out in the rougher neighborhoods.
PeakOil is You
Civil War in the US
Re: Civil War in the US
by PrairieMule » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 20:03:39
If you give a man a fish you will have kept him from hunger for a day. If you teach a man to fish he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
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Re: Civil War in the US
by PenultimateManStanding » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 20:24:16
A power vacuum is a dangerous situation and if the feds go under the onslought of depletion, and we're on our own, we could see lots of madness and violence everywhere. Up in New England too most likely. Down in Texas, Missouri, here in San Diego, real bad situation all over.
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Re: Civil War in the US
by duke3522 » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 21:05:26
Hey Mule,
I’ll have to agree with PMS here. The cops and the sheriffs are at best a wild card, and at worst the out right oppressors.
I have seen for myself the attitude among many of the law enforcement community that they are above the law and separate from the rest of the community. Don’t get me wrong here, I know several cops who are good folk, and who are trying to protect and serve the community.
The best example I can give as to my mistrust in law enforcement is what a lawyer friend of mine told me. Now this friend of mine has been both a prosecutor and a defense lawyer, so he has seen what goes on from both sides. And he tells me that the willingness of law enforcement officers to perjure themselves in court, especially in drug cases, is astonishing.
And the thing is, everyone in the court room except the jury knows the law enforcement official in question is lying. The judge knows, the prosecutor knows, the defense attorney knows. Just look at what happened in Illinois. Most of death row was emptied out due to DNA proving these men innocent of the crimes for which they were charged.
Other examples of law enforcements extremism include the 1996 Olympic Park bombing where the FBI simply manufactured evidence against Richard Jewel, who was not only completely innocent, but he was the hero of the event.
Or how about the poor guy in Washington state who was accused of complicity in the Madrid Bombings simply because the FBI lab misread a finger print.
Unfortunately, the examples go on and on.
Duke of Indiana
I’ll have to agree with PMS here. The cops and the sheriffs are at best a wild card, and at worst the out right oppressors.
I have seen for myself the attitude among many of the law enforcement community that they are above the law and separate from the rest of the community. Don’t get me wrong here, I know several cops who are good folk, and who are trying to protect and serve the community.
The best example I can give as to my mistrust in law enforcement is what a lawyer friend of mine told me. Now this friend of mine has been both a prosecutor and a defense lawyer, so he has seen what goes on from both sides. And he tells me that the willingness of law enforcement officers to perjure themselves in court, especially in drug cases, is astonishing.
And the thing is, everyone in the court room except the jury knows the law enforcement official in question is lying. The judge knows, the prosecutor knows, the defense attorney knows. Just look at what happened in Illinois. Most of death row was emptied out due to DNA proving these men innocent of the crimes for which they were charged.
Other examples of law enforcements extremism include the 1996 Olympic Park bombing where the FBI simply manufactured evidence against Richard Jewel, who was not only completely innocent, but he was the hero of the event.
Or how about the poor guy in Washington state who was accused of complicity in the Madrid Bombings simply because the FBI lab misread a finger print.
Unfortunately, the examples go on and on.
Duke of Indiana
<b>I'd rather get my brains blown out in the wild than wait in terror at the slaughterhouse</b>.
Craig Volk, Northern Exposure, A-Hunting We Will Go, 1991
Craig Volk, Northern Exposure, A-Hunting We Will Go, 1991
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Re: Civil War in the US
by PenultimateManStanding » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 22:08:38
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('duke3522', 'H')ey Mule,
I’ll have to agree with PMS here. The cops and the sheriffs are at best a wild card, and at worst the out right oppressors.
Definately the signs aren't good here. But these organizations for using force are paid by the state, without pay and fuel, weapons, sanction, etc., they can dissolve into thin air. that's where the trouble starts. lots of miniature resource wars could spring up spontaneously, with new armies organizing to capture and exploit whatever they can. physically and mentally wasted people wander the streets dying in droves while the strong attempt to prevail in such a jungle that staggers the imagination in it's viciousness.I’ll have to agree with PMS here. The cops and the sheriffs are at best a wild card, and at worst the out right oppressors.
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Re: Civil War in the US
by TheTurtle » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 22:37:06
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('duke3522', ' ') And the possibility of getting killed yourself takes a lot of the fun out of mindless, bloodthirsty rampages.
This is currently very high in the Line of the Week competition, Duke. 
“Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.” (Ted Perry)
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Re: Civil War in the US
by Kingcoal » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 22:50:00
After the formation of the US, there were the Federalists and Republicans. Federalists believed in "cooperative Federalism" in which the States are always subordinate to the Federal government whenever there is a jurisdiction question. Republicans believed in States rights above all else. During the Civil war, cooperative Federalism won out and is now considered the norm. Today, the Federal government is fantastically strong, making civil war impossible. The only way for civil war to occur is for the federal government to loose a whole lot of power and control. Somehow I don't see that happening, even if we are in advanced stages of peak oil.
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Re: Civil War in the US
by PenultimateManStanding » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 23:22:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', ' ')The only way for civil war to occur is for the federal government to loose a whole lot of power and control. Somehow I don't see that happening, even if we are in advanced stages of peak oil.
the only way, sure, but that's what could happen at some point. then what? I'm hoping that the urban landscape will fragment into various surviving locations while the dying will not being able to swamp the whole city. Surviving locations could be so for any number of reasons, but they will probably have some sort of agriculture. I'm thinking drought resistant native staples like amaranth, squash, beans, etc., for a So. Cal. area. Movement over the landscape is likely to be on foot. Vagaries of demographics will matter a lot. Here I'd wonder how far north the people of Tijuana could get to stave off famine. I'd wonder how much stability I could expect. Maybe some people will get together right and get it done. They're going to have to fight is certain. I could hope to provide ideas, seeds, and some spirit to the emergency, and hope for luck or providence. Does this sound like a survivalist fantasy?-
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Re: Civil War in the US
by rogerhb » Mon 06 Mar 2006, 23:33:48
I notice people are refering to a strong Fed, compare with the USSR at break up and various countries in Africa.
What happens when the Army no longer gets paid, or paid in meaningful currency?
What happens when the Army can no longer be fed?
What happens when soldiers go AWOL because they fear for their families safety?
Could the military actually start a coup against the civilian government?
What happens when the Army no longer gets paid, or paid in meaningful currency?
What happens when the Army can no longer be fed?
What happens when soldiers go AWOL because they fear for their families safety?
Could the military actually start a coup against the civilian government?
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
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Re: Civil War in the US
by zoidberg » Tue 07 Mar 2006, 02:22:52
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'I') notice people are refering to a strong Fed, compare with the USSR at break up and various countries in Africa.
What happens when the Army no longer gets paid, or paid in meaningful currency?
What happens when the Army can no longer be fed?
What happens when soldiers go AWOL because they fear for their families safety?
Could the military actually start a coup against the civilian government?
What happens when the Army no longer gets paid, or paid in meaningful currency?
What happens when the Army can no longer be fed?
What happens when soldiers go AWOL because they fear for their families safety?
Could the military actually start a coup against the civilian government?
Let us not forgot the limitless examples of American engineering military coups against civilian governments across the world. That type of mindset is well established in the American National Security Establishment. It wouldn't be unthinkable for this mindset to be applied to the American population as well.
I laugh when I hear comments about how a strong center makes the whole thing more stable!!! It just means only one point has to be taken out to collapse the whole thing, a quintessentially weak arrangement. (isnt that the idea behind the doomer peak oil philosophy?)
Plus consider how the civilian leaders(almost all draft dodgers and other assorted non-combatants, who strenously avoided anything personally dangerous) use the military to boost poll numbers, and provide fat contracts to political donaters. I'd feel intense resentment, and after being used so callously(lets not forgot those poor IRR people) I wouldn't think ill of Bush & co being led out of office on the point of a bayonet. Especially if their deluded policies result in a major American military defeat. I personally feel the USA is only a couple disasters away from a coup and then civil war. For instance, a major(nuclear?) terrorist incident, and then a defeat in the resulting American offensive would provide enough stress to fracture the seemingly invincible and loyal American army.
What if an adminstration tried to launch nukes against another nuclear power? Would the order be obeyed? Especially if the order was simply to stave off a conventional military defeat brought on by civilian leaders trying to follow impossible policies?
Hubris saturates the atmosphere. It has brough down the mighty countless times before. History is NOT over.
(IRR = Individual ready reserve)
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